The latest candidates beginning the process that ultimately may lead to canonisation have been announced and inlude Pope Pius XII – read more
That’s the good news. The less than good news is that Pope John Paul II’s name is also on the list despite having reigned over one of the worst periods in the Church’s history – and failed to act (by his own admission) to discipline dissenters when he ought to have done so.
Click on ‘comments’ if you have a view on this.
Tags: holocaust, jews, pope pius xii
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Leave it to the Telegraph to attempt to link Pius XII’s cause with Bishop Williamson, and with those Jewish ideologues who refuse to surrender their steady diet of lies about this Pope, even in the face of overwhelming evidence that refutes their claims. Is this newspaper owned by Zionists? Or just Freemasons?
So the Church continues to reap what it sowed at Vatican II: surrendering herself to geopolitics. As a result, every move of the Church is now seen, and judged, as political.
As for JPII, apparently material heresy now counts as virtue! Right side up (Pius XII), upside down (JPII) – modernism at work, and still the force whose army occupies the Church.
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Source: http://www.catholicculture.org/news/headlines/index.cfm?storyid=4969
The Vatican announced that Pope Pius XII is to be declared Venerable, which is an honorific that both acknowledges the recipient’s holiness and serves as a step on his journey toward beatification.
Pius was Supreme Pontiff from 1939-1958. He reigned during a period of great persecution against the Church, and he was a tireless opponent of totalitarian regimes such as commmunism and nazism. In 1950 he infallibly declared that the long-accepted teaching of the Assumption of the Blessed Virgin Mary was dogmatically certain and true — see http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/pius_xii/apost_constitutions/documents/hf_p-xii_apc_19501101_munificentissimus-deus_en.html
These days probably the most discussed period of his pontificate are the war years. Under the direction of Pope Pius, the Catholic Church saved nearly 900,000 European Jews. Israeli Prime Minister Golda Meir, the Chief Rabbis of Jerusalem, Rome, and Budapest, the World Jewish Congress, the American Jewish community, and numerous others praised Pius for his relief efforts and public denunciation of racial persecution — in fact, work is afoot to have Yad Vashem name him as a “righteous gentile” — see http://zenit.org/article-27813?l=english
Pope Pius died of acute heart failure. His doctor said: “The Holy Father did not die because of any specific illness. He was completely exhausted. He was overworked beyond limit. His heart was healthy, his lungs were good. He could have lived another 20 years, had he spared himself.” He died as he lived, not counting the cost, lovingly dedicated to shepherding the flock entrusted to his care.
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Don’t forget the holy martyr Fr. Jerzy Popiełuszko!
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If both popes are canonised, we must accept that both are worthy to be called saint, or else we cannot be sure that either is.
If it is inappropriate for one or other or both to be declared a saint, I trust the Holy Spirit will guide the Church accordingly.
Eileenanne
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Eileenanne,
I cannot pick fault in what you say. Perhaps it is the eagerness of those promoting the cause of Pope John Paul II and waiving normal safeguards which is the most concerning aspect, to at all costs have a real ’spirit of Vatican II’ saint to confirm their stance as being pleasing to heaven.
However we can be assured that The Holy Spirit will ensure we are confident in the sanctity of either candidate, as evidenced by the miracles. Of course we cannot be sure that Pope Pius XII is a saint, however just as those who promote the cause of Pope John Paul II have the right to do so if they believe it to be worthy, so we are entitled to do likewise for Pope Pius XII and to pay no regard to the bigotry espoused by the secular media in the name of outraged Jewry.
Indeed this is one main point which is apparent in the Telegraph article; either by ignorance or intention, it is framed as a worldly political process, rather than a revelation from heaven evidenced by miracles. If we keep that consideration firmly to the fore it would be an act of ignorance before God not to recognise celestial confirmation of the salvation of either soul due to temporal considerations. In thinking of the lives of many saints, they were controversial figures in their age who be definition rejected the values of the world.
I bear neither former Pope any ill, however will pursue with no vigour either particular cause. The popular cause I hope to see recognised is that of Gabriel García Moreno, the martyred President of Ecuador.
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Tomas de Torquemada:
You have it quite right. There can be little justification for Pope John-Paul II being proposed for canonization given the visible fruits of his period in office, but I have little doubt that a miracle will miraculously occur to uphold his cause.
Eileenanne:
You say:
If both popes are canonised, we must accept that both are worthy to be called saint, or else we cannot be sure that either is.
I don’t see the logic of this statement. What part does skullduggery play in our need to accept the outcome of the proceedings?
If it is inappropriate for one or other or both to be declared a saint, I trust the Holy Spirit will guide the Church accordingly.
I too hope that the Holy Ghost will see to it that only those servants truly worthy of Sainthood are canonized.
Crossraguel: I agree with you about Gabriel Garcia Moreno – may his cause soon be advanced.
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I find myself agreeing with Eileenanne (don’t fall down and faint, Eileenanne)!
We must remember that there is still a bit to go in this process and trust in the Holy Ghost, as Eileenanne says.
Crossraguel
I agree with you completely regarding Gabriel Garcia Moreno.
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Petrus, if you are saying what I think you are saying, then you are spot on.
Being declared Venerable or even being Beatified, is not the same as being canonised. After all, there are plenty of saints in Heaven who are not canonised – hence All Saints day.
It seems unthinkable that a Pope who admitted in his last written work, that he did not discipline dissenters as he should have done and who allowed the Church to sink deeper and deeper into decay over the decades he was Pontiff, should be held up as a public role model for Catholics. It just will not happen – although I believe Christopher Ferrara has written an excellent article on the question of the validity of the fast-track canonisations which do not require the rigorous three miracles.
I think Crossraguel has hit the nail on the head when he identities the inclusion of JP II as being a desperate attempt to find a “saint” to justify the debacle of Vatican II.
Won’t happen, folks. You heard it here first…
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Editor,
I’m feeling a little guilty about always criticising eileenanne, so I was pleased to agree with her on this. I do suspect, however, that we both have different perspectives on what we agree on.
I agree that we must trust the Holy Ghost…because He will not allow Pope John Paul II to be canonised. We haven’t had a Novus Ordo saint, have we? I won’t hold my breath on Pope John Paull II being the first.
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Pius XII will be canonised, no doubt about that, just as soon as Catholic Churchmen become once more militant instead of prostrating themselves in front of the enemies of God seeking some imagined “reconciliation.” This crawling behaviour before the Jews and others is a disgrace.
Who cares what the Zionist Jews think, this is a Catholic matter and there is sufficient testimony on Pius’ behalf to show that he did what was right by the Jews during their persecution. Fat lot of thanks he’s getting from them today! But it’s as Fr. Peter Gumpel (postulator of Pius’ cause) put it, e.g., that Pius XII is not the real target, it’s the Church which is the target of these ‘Black Legend’ Jews. They aim to discredit the Church by spreading the myth that Pius was somehow party to their suffering. It’s clever, demonically so!
I think it’s high time the hierarchy of the Catholic Church remembered its exaulted position in this world and act accordingly, as it did before that infiltrated Council. It’s supposed to be those appointed by Christ who are running Catholic affairs, not Zionist Israel and the Anti-Defamation League. Shame on those who allow these troublemakers to interfere in Catholic matters in this way.
As for Pope John Paul II, I will be utterly shocked if his cause ever gets to canonisation. This process, as with Paul VI, is being backed and pushed by modernists keen to have their liberalism canonised by the Church. It will not be canonised, only condemned.
The scandals resulting from pope John Paul II’s reign have done great harm to the Faith. I do not say that he was a bad person in himself, but he was a rank modernist who gave the impression (at Assisi) that all religions were of value before God. He also inserted a piece of paper with a prayer written on it into the Western Wall of the old Temple in Jerusalem, again giving the impression that a rejection of the true Messiah by the Jews is of little account before God.
What was it Our Lord said about that Temple: “There will not be left a stone upon a stone” and You will not see me henceforth until you learn to say blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.” And again, “Your house shall be left to you a house of desolation.” It seems, then, that Our Lord wasn’t quite so accommodating to falsehood as these modern Churchmen appear to be! Why don’t they just tell the Jews the truth, e.g., there is one Church, one Faith and one Baptism by which men can be saved, instead of treading on egg shells with them over the canonisation of a holy Pope.
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Leprechaun,
Skulduggery? Why do you mention skulduggery? As others seem to have grasped, I meant that we have to trust the Holy Spirit to ensure that no-one is declared a saint who does not warrant the tile. It would be illogical to rejoice at and accept the canonisation of one of these popes while questioning the the canonisation of the other (if both were to be canonised). There does seem to be a feeling hereabouts that Pope John Paul II may not be a saint, but that Pope Pius XII probably is. That may or may not be so, but if both are eventually canonised we must accept that both merit the title.
Eileenanne
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Trusting in the Holy Ghost sounds like a good plan – unless it’s the Holy Ghost Who is misused to validate every Modernist whim….starting with the “reforms” of Vatican II….
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Eileenanne
As far as I know, a declaration of canonisation is infallible. The reason for this is obviously that the Church cannot hold up, as saints to be imitated, those who are unworthy.
Recent decades have witnessed the Church’s age-old beatification process being eroded, particularly under pope John Paul II. The ‘devil’s advocate’ was done away with and the number of miracles required to prove divine favour on the one held up for canonisation has been reduced to just one. Also, the waiting period before a process can start has been tampered with in general, and on the personal whim of Pope Benedict XVI in the case of John Paul II. It is utterly ridiculous to push the cause for someone so soon after their death, especially when that someone was hardly outstanding.
So, yes, like you I leave this to God, but I know by his disastrous reign that John paul II will never be raised to the honour of the altar.
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Eileenann:
I mention skulduggery because that is how the Novus Ordo Mass was brought in, and because those who have once stooped to that level cannot be trusted not to do it again to have a miracle (or three) attributed to the cause for the canonisation of Pope John-Paul II.
It is not that I don’t grasp the point you are making, but I am just not prepared to blindly accept it as millions blindly accepted the Novus Ordo Mass. On that basis, you would have me accept that the latest recipient of the Nobel Peace prize deserved the award.
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leprechaun
Didn’t you mean the Nobel War Prize?
Ath
RE the “devil’s advocate” being done away with, I thought I read in one of the current articles that Pope Benedict had been waiting for the devil’s advocate’s report. Was his role done away with entirely, or just “reformed” (i.e. dumbed down to the point of neutering it)?
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Torkay
The ghost that justifies the modernist whims is more likely to be Casper the friendly ghost!
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Connecticut rabbi: No one ‘did more to rescue Jews than Pius’
November 26, 2008
In comments that appear in the latest edition of Connecticut’s weekly Jewish newspaper, Rabbi Eric Silver of Temple Beth David in Cheshire, CT defended Pope Pius XII’s wartime actions. Following a recent Pave the Way Foundation symposium in Rome, Rabbi Silver said, ‘We studied the documents in the Vatican’s archives and had eye-witness interviews, and what we learned was truly world-shaking. There is nobody who did more to rescue Jews than Pius.’ Silver added that Holocaust architect Adolf Eichmann ‘in his diary records that his efforts are being frustrated by the pope; he just can’t prove it.’Source(s): these links will take you to other sites, in a new window.
Pope Pius XII: The Case For– and Against– Canonization (Jewish Ledger)
Pius and the question of leadership (Jewish Ledger) -
Mmmm – links not working -
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Pope Pius XII: The Case For – and Against -Canonization
Published: Tuesday, November 25, 2008 6:16 PM EST (Jewish Ledger)
“After the war, there seemed to be a consensus among Jewish leaders about Pius. On Dec. 1, 1944 the New York Times reported that the World Jewish Congress publicly thanked the Holy See’s protection of Jews, especially in Hungary. In October 1945, the World Jewish Congress made a financial gift to the Vatican in recognition of Pius’s work to save the Jews. In May 1955, the Israel Philharmonic played at the Vatican as a gesture of thanks to the pope for his services to Jews during the war.
When Pius died on Oct. 9, 1958, the public accolades continued. In fact, the New York Times received so many tributes over the next three days that it could only publish the authors’ names, among them, leaders of major Jewish organizations. Two days later, the Times cited memorial services for Pius in several New York City synagogues.”
http://www.jewishledger.com/articles/2008/11/25/news/on_the_cover/news01.txt
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Thank you for providing that interesting link Benet, two aspects of its immense detail strike me: the statement ‘doubts raised by Jews and Catholics alike’ and the remarkable inversion of opinion dating to 1963.
Given the evidence provided to determine that the character assassination was orchestrated at least in part by communists on the outside, there is no surprise to any of us to see those from within emerge to do a hatchet job on the last stoic traditional pontiff in the midst of Vatican II (leaving aside reasoned suspicions and evidence to suggest that both internal and external matters are correlated).
It is truly uplifting to see Jews so committed to have the truth revealed in the face of such ‘global consensus’ to the contrary. Anyone for global warming?
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I had also intended to make mention of the lack of academic intention behind those in the holocaust industry intent on blackening the name of Pope Pius XII, as evidenced by their failure to take up the generous offer extended through a fellow Jew to examine the very archives they claim will reveal the truth.
Their absence from the symposium is a clear signal that they have arrived at their conclusion, and will there remain regardless of the evidence. Such a state of affairs has me in mind of Dr Marra’s explanation of poor sola scriptura biblical exegesis, holding to a particular position and interpreting scripture to validate it rather than genuinely seeking the revealed truth.
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Crossraguel,
I have just found a blog devoted to collecting articles about the Ven. Pius XII’s help toward the Jews. Looks like a great resource.
http://popepiusxiiandthejews.blogspot.com/
including this article by a Jesuit on the accusations against him.
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Benet & Crossraguel
The inversion of Pius’ efforts for the Jews was carried out effectively by Rolf Hochhuth’s play ‘The Deputy’ (sometimes called ‘The Vicar’). This was a piece of revisionist trash written up as a play by Hochhuth, seized upon by the enemies of the Church and disseminated as the truth via the media post-1960.
Until that time the entire Jewish world had praised Pius XII for his interventions on behalf of the Jews. No testimony is more telling than this United Nations address by Golda Mieir on the death of the pope in 1958:
“We share the grief of the world over the death of His Holiness Pius XII. During a generation of wars and dissensions, he affirmed the high ideals of peace and compassion. During the ten years of Nazi terror, when our people went through the horrors of martyrdom, the Pope raised his voice to condemn the persecutors and to commiserate with their victims. The life of our time has been enriched by a voice which expressed the great moral truths above the tumults of daily conflicts. We grieve over the loss of a great defender of peace.”
Every Jewish leader echoed this praise of the Pope, whose charity towards the persecuted Jews was so great that it converted the Chief Rabbi of Rome to Catholicism (Rabbi Israel Zolli). On his reception into the Church, Zolli took the Christian name Eugenio in honour of the pope who was responsible for his conversion, Eugenio Pacelli.
Although Hochhuth’s play was the instrument of calumny, Stalin was actually the brain behind the ‘Black Legend,’ as it is now called by the more objective scholars of today.
It was a typical Stalinist tactic to muddy the names of enemies by circulating lies about them. Pius XII was a mortal enemy of Communism and was particularly hated by Stalin as a result. These lies against Pius, then, have their origin in the Kremlin.
And to think that the Popes of Vatican II agreed with the Kremlin to silence their warnings about Communism in exchange for a couple of Orthodox observers at Vatican II. By agreing to such a disgraceful deal with Jewish-inspired Communism, these popes equally betrayed the memory of Pius XII, as they did that of Pius XI. The Zionists are merely making the best of the opportunity handed them to slander the Church.
The good news is that Pope Benedict XVI is attempting to put things right, as are an increasing number of honourable Jewish scholars. They have their work cut out, however, with Zionist-controlled Israel and the ADL, both of which entities have the world’s media on their side. I only wish Pope Benedict would break the Conciliar agreement with Russia and make the consecration of that country to Our Lady’s Immaculate Heart.
It’s already late, for Russia has just about subjugated the entire globe under its revised Communist-Socialist New World Order. The Communist Obama is the last piece of the jigsaw that will see the U.S. finally defeated and the persecution of Catholicism begun in earnest. It’s very close now!
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Athanasius
Do you remember there was talk of Cardinal Bertone ‘making enquiries’ about how Russia would react if the consecration happened? Did anything come of that? Do you think we’ll see the consecration of Russia in our lifetime?
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Romanian spymaster Ion Mihai Pacepa defected to the west. A few years ago he wrote that promotion of the play by Hitler Youth charmer Hochhuth was Soviet handiwork — see http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=YTUzYmJhMGQ5Y2UxOWUzNDUyNWUwODJiOTEzYjY4NzI=
As Athanasius pointed out, before the death of Pius, the Jewish world readily recognized the aid he gave their people — see http://www.catholicapologetics.info/apologetics/judaism/gratitude.htm
It was only after the death of the Venerable Pius that he became the scapegoat for the failures of others.
“As KGB chairman Yury Andropov, the unparalleled master of Soviet deception, used to tell me, people are more ready to believe smut than holiness.” – Ion Mihai Pacepa
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Petrus
I do remember something along the lines of Cardinal Bertone’s inquiry, but it all went rather quiet. Presumably he got short shrift from the Russian Orthodox!
I do think the pope will consecrate Russia, Our Lady has promised this, but whether he does it voluntarily or by urgency (some eye-opening cataclysm) I can’t say. These millions of rosaries offered by traditional Catholics will, I hope, swing the balance.
Isaac
My thanks for confirming the Russian influence behind the black legend.
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Let us not forget that this worthy Pope (Pius XII) held steadfast to the Traditional belief of “Ecumenism of the Return”.
The true teaching of the Church warns “reaching out” to non-Catholics must be for the purpose of guiding them back to the One True Church. This Pope warned that “false ecumenism” would lead to the ruin of souls.
This was the clear teaching contained in Pope Pius XII’s 1949 Instruction on the Ecumenical Movement – a teaching that conformed to the perennial Magisterium of the centuries. Here Pius XII said, “True reunion can only come about by the return of dissidents to the one true Church of Christ.”
Unlike Pope John Paul II, who endorsed praying and uniting with false religions. Most of the Church corruption in the last 40 years can be traced back to false ecumenism.
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Miley
Most of the Church corruption in the last 40 years can be traced back to false ecumenism.
Not to mention disobedience, the manna of the ego.
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Well, folks, the Pope is not signalling that he’ll consecrate Russia soon – quite the reverse…
http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/articles/a0000707.shtml -
The more I think about this Papal initiative, the more I think it fits Pope Benedict’s “big tent” pattern of behavior. That is, he is not a traditionalist, but he wishes to welcome traditionalism back into the fold. The same with this: he advances the cause of a fellow modernist (actually, a much worse modernist than himself), but at the same time, he does the same for the last tradition-minded Pope.
The question is, how long can he dance on this high wire? Is he hoping for a glasnost counter-revolution at some point? Or is he just trying to keep everyone happy?
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From “Holy See and Russia agree to upgrade ties” —
“tense relations between the Russian Orthodox and Catholic Churches had been partially responsible for the lack of establishing full diplomatic relations in the past.”
That, and the (oh by-the-way) inherently perverse and inhuman Soviet mass-murder machine.
As the Russians would say: “gloopy”
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Isaac
That, and the (oh by-the-way) inherently perverse and inhuman Soviet mass-murder machine.
At the hands of which Alexander Litvinenko also perished just a few years ago, not to mention a number of Russian journalists who opposed Mr. Putin!
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Isaac
Sorry, it should have read as follows. I’m just getting the hang of blockquotes.
That, and the (oh by-the-way) inherently perverse and inhuman Soviet mass-murder machine.
At the hands of which Alexander Litvinenko also perished just a few years ago, not to mention a number of Russian journalists who opposed Mr. Putin!
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Ath
You’ve had a blockquote Eureka!
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Isaac
Yes indeed, the penny has dropped and now I’ll be blockquoting at every opportunity!
editor
Listen up! I have just won a free trip to the U.S. on a BBC radio programme. I get £20,000 spending money and I’m allowed to take up to five friends with me.
Now I know this is rather short notice, but are you available between December 26th and January 3rd? If so, do you think you could put my bin out? Thanks!
Someone sent that to me in a text message tonight and I just had to share it. Hilarious or what?
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Because all his other friends who could put the bin out will be in the U.S. with him. It’s good to know where you stand.
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Ath and Ed
Ich “bin” ein Berliner?
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“The question is, how long can he dance on this high wire?”
Torkay,
I think the Pope’s dance is called the fox trot. One step forward, two steps back.
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Well, Athanasius, depends on whether or not you faithfully recycle your rubbish. I cant be putting out bins which contain the wrong rubbish…
Isaac got it in one – I now know where I stand on Athanasius’s list of friends. Right in the middle of his rubbish and recycling bin. Well, I never!“They” are saying that Pope Benedict included Pope JP II on the list as a sop to the liberals who will be furious about Pope Pius XII being on there. Not that that is an excuse (just a reason) because nothing can possibly excuse such a scandal. But again, we mustn’t forget that Cardinal Ratzinger said at Pope JP II’s funeral, that he was looking down on us all from Heaven so it could well be that he is included on the list for his own sake. I suppose the wonder is that they are bothering to go through the process at all since they already believe he’s in Heaven.
Watch for next week’s Catholic papers though – it will be a hoot to read their linguistic fox trots (to steal Miles Christi Sum’s metaphor) as they try to praise the naming of JP II while giving criticism (ranging from the milder end to the Tablet’s rage) of the inclusion of Pope Pius XII.
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While it is true that Pope John Paul II did some eccentric things which could cause scandal, such as kissing the Koran, and his calling together of other faiths to pray at Assisi, when there was no common way of prayer, he was I believe a very holy peson. How much he is to blame for the decline of the Church is a very open question. Perhaps we should look a little more at the faith of the people in the pre-Vatican Church. But whether he could have or did not has little to do with his holiness. Pope John Paul, has given the Church many great documents including the Catechism of the Catholic Church. His teachings were sound and faithful to the traditional teachings of the Church. Indeed by reading these documents many have understood a little better the message of Christ. The present Pope as Cardinal lived with Pope John Paul, and it his frim beleif from observation that John Paul was very holy. We should not question this but give thanks to God. Perhaps not Pope should be declared venerable on political grounds but perhaps the attacks on John Paul being chosen are also in the political sphere.
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jkeaney
I think you’re being a bit naive. The new Catechism is chock full of vague, watered-down, pseudo-modernist formulations – formulations that fit perfectly (surprise, surprise!) into the Novus Ordo mentality of inoffensive, desacralized and geopoliticized faith.
As for his teachings being sound and faithful to tradition, I think you may have opened a blogger can of worms with that statement. Be prepared for an ensuing uproar. Shall we start with Theology of the Body? Ut unum sint? Adding a “mystery” to the Rosary? How about we play spin the bottle and see if it lands anywhere near the “fidelity” square?
Perhaps it would be useful to begin with a definition of “holiness.” I don’t recall anyone claiming that JPII died in the odor of sanctity – do you?
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“John Paul, has given the Church many great documents including the Catechism of the Catholic Church.”
jkeaney
The New Catechism is NOT great, it is liberal! It confesses the same nonsense about the Church of Christ subsisting in the Catholic Church, and the error of ecumenism. That alone makes it worthless. It is the Second Vatican Council in catechism form, so to speak.
Pope Pius X warned us that Modernists always mix truth and falsehoods together, which is extremely dangerous to the faith.
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I was given a present of John-Paul II’s “Catechism of the Catholic Church” 3 or 4 years ago. I have never even opened it.
This week I tried to give it away with a number of books of similar kind to a nun who is very liberal. She declined to accept it.
What does that tell you?
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Faithful to the traditional teaching of the Church? Mad. Barking mad.
Some of Pope JPII’s works were faithful, ordinatio Sacerdotalis immediately springs to mind, but Theology of the Body? Ut Unum Sint? Are you for real?
The mark of a true Modernist is someone who is perfectly traditional one minute, but woefully liberal the next. Pope JPII epitomises this.
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I think it says more about the nun than the Catechism.
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Miles Christi Sum
I meant to say – fab quote from Ven. Pope Pius XII on ecumenism. Thanks for that.
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“I was given a present of John-Paul II’s “Catechism of the Catholic Church” 3 or 4 years ago. I have never even opened it.
This week I tried to give it away with a number of books of similar kind to a nun who is very liberal. She declined to accept it.”
leprechaun –That says it all!
Petrus — You’re welcome!
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I forgot to copy them here, but have just sent my thoughts on Pope John Paul II’s cause to Zenit News Agency. Of course my comments will never see the light of day!!
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While on the subject of ‘bin’ jokes, here’s a good one.
A garbage lorry turns up one day at the back door of a local Chinese take away. The guy gets out of the cab and says to the Chinese owner: “Where’s your bin,” to which he replies “I bin to China.”
“No”, says the man, “I mean where’s your bin.” Again, the Chinese man says ” I told you, I bin to China.”
“You misunderstand,” replies the garbage man, “where’s your wheely bin.” The Chinese man responds: “I promise you, I wheely bin to China.”
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That was a great joke, Athanasius. I agree that Pope John Paul II will never be canonised but it is fantastic news about Pope Pius XII
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A copy of the Vatican’s note can be found on Rorate Caeli:
http://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2009/12/note-of-holy-see-press-office.html
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Christmas Quiz!
Which recent Pope on a visit to WADI AL-KHARRAR in Jordan said?
” God bless you all! God bless Jordan!
May Saint John Baptist protect Islam and all the people of Jordan, and all who (sic) partecipated in this celebration, a memorable celebration. I’m very grateful to all of you.
Thank you very much.”
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Is now a good time to ask how the cause for the Canonization of the Pope Paul VI is coming along?
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Benet,
I’m willing to bet it wasn’t Pius XII who said that!
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Benet, it HAS to be Pope John Paul II. Having so miserably failed the Columbo quiz set by Torkay, I have just GOT to get this one right.
Well?
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Dear Editor,
Yes according to the Vatican website it was indeed the Ven. Pope John Paul II.
I hope you and all other readers are enjoying a Happy & Holy Christmas.
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And you think Pope John Paul II merits the title of “Venerable”? A Pope who calls on Christ’s pre-curser, to protect Islam?
Please, Benet! I mean, puleeeese!
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editor
Unless I’m missing something, Benet is anything but in favour of Pope John Paul II being declared “venerable.” Hence his quotation from Jordan.
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I’m sure that’s right Athanasius, but – re. the quotation from Jordan – Benet quoted it from “Ven JPII” so I was highlighting the nonsense of him being declared “Venerable”
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It might be a nonsense, but for the moment we have to live with it.
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editor
“I’m sure that’s right Athanasius, but – re. the quotation from Jordan – Benet quoted it from “Ven JPII” so I was highlighting the nonsense of him being declared “Venerable””
If I’m not mistaken, I think this is what Benet was also doing.
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Well, it wasn’t clear to me, Athanasius, but I apologise if I’m being dense.
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Editor,
If John Paul II admitted he had not done enought against dissenters surely in christian charity we should accept this humble confession and not use it against him. Was he a holy man? As before I say he did rash things but his intentions were good. If SSPX does reconcile then the children will no doubt start reading the writings of this Pope. They are extraordinary refreshing and show an insight which reveals his holiness. But I can disagree with the Vatican. Pope Benedict should never have entered the Holocaust in Isarel while the picture of Pope Pius was displayed there. I am fed up with Vatican diplomacy and if the Jews do not like Pope Pius being honoured then `hard luck` it is our affair and they should not try to run our church and this is what the Vatican should be saying.
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jkearney, I agree with you concluding point about Pope Benedict going into Yad Vashem despite the dishonouring of Pope Pius XII there, but you cannot minimise the damage caused by the papacy of JPII. Only a few minutes ago I was reading his apology – in Dominicae Cenae (1980) in which he asked forgiveness “for everything…(including) the partial, one-sided and erroneous application of the directives of the Second Vatican Council…”
He said this in 1980 yet did absolutely nothing to put it right. That is cause for grave concern.
Just because he’s deceased doesn’t mean we need to canonise him: we must, however, pray for the repose of his soul.
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