“THE Catholic Church last night vowed to challenge in court any move to legalise assisted suicide, after veteran MSP Margo MacDonald launched her right-to-die bill. The Church has questioned the legality of the proposed law that could introduce suicide clinics to Scotland and see those as young as 16 given the right to decide to have their lives ended.” Click here to read the Scotsman front page news report 22 January.
Why, I wonder, would “The Catholic Church” (in Scotland) suddenly threaten legal action to challenge assisted suicide legislation when, all these years, there’s been no legal threat to the abortion law? After all, people of 16 and over are capable of speaking for themselves, unlike the poor, entirely innocent, babies in the womb. So, why this particular piece of legislation and why now?
Oops! The Scots bishops’ ad limina visit is looming at the beginning of February and there’s a possible papal visit in the pipeline. Call me Msssss McCynical if you will, but I’m not sure this latest episcopal headline is due to any genuine concern for “life” issues. So, that’s double-standard number one.
Then read the report below, which a concerned reader in Edinburgh emailed – as did another concerned (former Anglican) reader in Wales. Seems this news is doing the rounds again (it was mentioned, in passing, on this blog before Christmas). Read the following, incredible report, and be aware of the fact that the Cardinal – and each and every other Scottish bishop – would sooner demolish every vacant church building in the land than hand it over to the Catholic Society of Saint Pius X.
Irony of ironies; the double-standard to beat all double-standards – Cardinal O’Brien is happy to help “traditional” Protestants, but not “traditional” Catholics – i.e. he’ll provide a place for Protestants who wish to resist the “liberals” but not Catholics. Disgraceful. Read the report from the grateful Protestant group below and reflect…
Traditionalist Anglicans in Scotland celebrate Christmas
Traditionalist Anglicans in Scotland are setting up a new community in Edinburgh. This is being made possible because of a generous offer from the Roman Catholic Archdiocese of St Andrews and Edinburgh to provide a place of worship for their first service this Christmas Eve.
Canon Len Black, Regional Dean of Forward in Faith Scotland, the organisation which represents orthodox Anglicans world-wide, said, “This move has come about because of the rapid drift of the Scottish Episcopal Church away from the traditional faith, morals and practices of the universal Church.
We are most grateful to Cardinal Keith O’Brien for the generosity he has shown us in making a place of worship available, not just for Christmas but in the months ahead, as we seek to serve those Episcopalians who look to us for spiritual and sacramental support.” “When the Scottish Episcopal Church first decided to ordain women as priests some 15 years ago we were assured of a ‘valued and honoured place’ within the church ‘for all time to come’. That promise has not been honoured and today some of our people even find that they are being told they are no longer welcome in the churches in where they were baptised as infants.
Now we find that the provision we were hoping for from our own Church is being offered to all disaffected Anglicans by the Catholic Church.” “Episcopalians in Scotland have a long and rich history and liturgical tradition and the offer from the Catholic Church to enable us to take this tradition with us is something we and all traditionalists must consider carefully.” Cardinal O’Brien commented, “I am delighted to help provide a place of worship for these Traditionalist Anglicans, taking the lead from Pope Benedict XVI and his predecessor Pope John Paul II.”
The first service – a Christmas Vigil Mass – is being held on Thursday 24th December at 7pm in the Chapel of the Convent of Mercy (St Catherine’s), 4 Lauriston Gardens, Tollcross, Edinburgh EH3 9HH – www.forwardinfaith.info/scotland.
Canon Len Black Forward in Faith Scotland Regional Dean
Click on ‘comments’ with your views on both of these issues, which centre, in large part, on the double-standards, confusion, whatever it is, of the Scottish Bishops. I haven’t noticed a lot of pro-abortion-voting Catholic MPs being taken to task, have you? Let alone, that abominable Act being challenged in the courts. There wasn’t so much as a murmur when the Civil Partnerships Bill make its smooth and very merry way through the House. And notice, too, how the Cardinal is careful to use not one, but two Popes to justify his unconscionable action in providing church premises for the Protestant “traditionalists”. I’ve not heard him quoting Pope Benedict on the liturgy, though, have you? Does Cardinal O’Brien really not see the irony in helping Protestants to escape the liberals in their ecclesial communities, while refusing to help Catholics do the same? If you see the irony, the double-standards, tell us, now.
Tags: abortion, assisted suicide, cardinal o'brien
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Oh my, I did not expect to read that the Catholic Church threaten to challenge assisted suicide legislation in court. If this proposed ‘right to die’ bill does become legal in Scotland, I wonder how soon it will compare against the statitistics for abortions?
This link is the proposal of the Bill that Margo McDonald has put forward.
http://www.Scottish.parliament.uk/S3/bills/MembersBills/pdfs/EndofLifeChoicesConsultation.pdfThe Scottish Hierarchy must be feeling hot under their collars, with Ad Limina in February. And of course the possibility of a Papal visit later in the year.
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The Cardinal’s hospitality knows no bounds. On 29 October 2008 a conference held by Action of Churches Together in Scotland called “Old Age; Wasteland or harvest field” was held in the Gillis Centre Edinburgh. One of the speakers was Margo MacDonald.
“Margo believes that there should be free provision for older people of opportunities for taking regular exercise so as to enhance their general health and well-being during their latter years. But she is also an advocate for the right to ‘Assisted Dying’.
During the questions after her presentation she was asked about her campaign in the Scottish Parliament. As a person with Parkinson’s, she has spoken out strongly for the right to choose to curtail her own, and her family’s suffering in the event of “losing my dignity or being faced with the prospect of a painful or protracted death.” She told the delegates that the following day she would be announcing plans to bring a Member’s Bill to the Scottish Parliament to change the law on assisted suicide, saying it should not be a crime to help someone to end their life rather than watching them suffering from a painful or degenerative condition for which there is no cure. She was planning on publishing a consultation paper by the end of November which would involve as wide a spectrum of people as possible in discussing the issue. “The politicians have run a mile from this, but they cannot continue to run. I’m not telling them what they have to believe, we all have our own values and beliefs”
There are 3 aspects to this that irritate me intensely;
i-the Catholic Church through its funding of ACTS paying for this
ii-a lack of foresight on the part of the ACTS General Secretary who is a Marist Brother
iii-the failure of anyone associated with the Gillis Centre to realise that they were placing church premises at the disposal of spokeswomen for state sanctioned murder.So you heard it at the Gillis Centre first folks. How convenient that the next day she would formally be announcing her death bill proposals.
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‘Cardinal O’Brien is happy to help “traditional” Protestants, but not “traditional” Catholics‘
What objective proof of this do you have? I know he helps the FiF lot, but what proof of the latter? Simply because he has not demonstrated something, it does not necessarily follow that it is true.
My major concern is that if you put words into his mouth, he may indeed take them up. What a shame that would be (I mean that sincerely). I dearly want to see rapprochement with SSPX.
However, I think before that a more important issue is simply vacant Churches. The SSPX issue aside – instead of making poor Parish Priests say umpteen Masses, and having charge for too many Parishes, why not invite in congregations or orders to take over the Parishes. It’s the old method of doing things, and I fail to see why the local curia is not doing this.
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Mark M, why don’t you ask the Cardinal if he would provide a church for the SSPX since St Margaret/St Leonard’s is a bit out of the way. If he would let the SSPX priests say ONE Mass in the Cathedral on a Sunday, that would be great, bang in the city centre and a real help to those who travel long distances to attend the SSPX Edinburgh Masses.
Why not ask him, if, in theory, he would do that?
In other words, Mark M, there is nothing subjective about the statement that the Cardinal is helping “traditional” Protestants but not Catholics. It is, as they say, a very clear given.
Prove me wrong.
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Ah, editor: I see what you mean, but has anybody asked already? I’m not trying to be awkward, just curious.
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YOU ask, Mark M. The rest of us already know the answer. YOU think there might be a positive response so YOU ask.
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I think it is nothing short of hypocrisy on the part of the Cardinal to offer a roof to traditional Episcopalians yet has never shown any concern for traditionalists in his own flock. Catholics in Edinburgh who wanted to remain faithful to tradition had to take matters into their own hands and invite the SSPX to come to say the Tridentine Mass. Then for many years it was a case of wandering from one hall to another all the tome looking for suitable premises to use as a church. I remember one building, a former kirk that had been used as a sale room. It came on the market and the SSPX looked at it however the Archdiocese put pressure on the Catholic owner not to sell to us. However, everything comes to he who waits as they say and, through the intercession of St. Philomena, the Church in St. Leonard’s Street became available and, at least to us, it’s perfect. And Editor, it’s not really “out of the way,” It’s only a mile from Princes Street and far more accessible than many of the city centre churches most of which have been vandalised in the name of Vatican II and are totally unsuited for the Traditional Mass.
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Regarding the legal challenge, on the one hand, I think it’s important not to fall into the Bernardin “consistent ethic of life” trap – namely, that you can’t oppose any single anti-Catholic issue unless you oppose every last one of them.
On the other hand, the timing of this is, as Editor suggests, a wee bit suspicious. Either way, the response is predictable: rather than do something about the hollowed-out state of the Church in Scotland, they once again focus on a social justice problem.
(Say, Editor, I just had a brilliant thought: what if all these bishops think that the real meaning of the “Spirit of Vatican II” is that the Church is supposed to be a hollow mess?)
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Vianney, welcome to our blog and thank you for your first, most helpful comment.
I tend to think everywhere is “out of the way” because I always get lost when going somewhere for the first time and the first time I went to the SSPX chapel in Edinburgh, I remember thinking it had taken less time to drive to Manchester! So, that’s my sense of direction for you. I’m very glad it is not far from Princes Street – I must try to find it again sometime in the near (when the winter is over) future…
James – a really important post from you: many thanks for highlighting yet another irony, in that Margo MacDonald has been handed Catholic premises from which to preach her death-wish for us all, while the owners/stewards of said premises threaten legal action if her death-wish comes to pass. You truly couldn’t make it up.
Torkay,
I’m thrilled that you’ve picked up the Scottish lingo at last! I loved that “wee bit suspicious” – and be assured that I never miss an opportunity to show off my American twang, as in a thousand “WOOOOOOOOOW”’s a day!
Also thrilled that, at long last, you are having “brilliant thoughts”. WOW Torkay!
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I don’t know where to start here because there is definitely double standards going on in both cases. I am totally amazed that the Cardinal is giving the Anglicans a church for worship and he would never in a million years do the same for the SSPX. Also, I’m afraid that the legal threat over the assisted suicide bill is well timed to be brought to the attention of the Vatican re. the ad limina and pope’s visit to Scotland.
Years ago when I wrote to Cardinal Hume about supporting Victoria Gillick in her court case to stop underage girls being given the pill, I got a reply saying that they didn’t think legal action was the right thing to do. Funny how the goalposts change when it suits.
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Editor, he shouldnt let the protestants use it, but neither should he let the divisive schismatics of sspx use it. their pride is immense and evil. they know better than anyone and continue the scandal of disunity in the one true church. there are several traditional groups in the church their adherents could attend. at this stage it is a cosy club. what about some real evangelization and stop picking off old time european already-catholics.
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johnk, welcome to our blog.
The Cardinal most definitely should not allow “divisive schismatics” to use any Catholic Church but the SSPX are not in schism. By definition, they are not in schism.
Here’s an extract from FAQ section of an SSPX website…
“What, moreover, constitutes a schismatic act? Not the mere deed of consecrating bishops without pontifical mandate. The 1983 Code of Canon Law itself lists this offense under Title 3 (abuse of ecclesiastical powers) and not under Title 1 (offenses against religion and the unity of the Church) of its penal section (Book 6).
Nor would it be a “schismatic act” to consecrate against the express wish of the Holy Father. That could amount to disobedience at most.* But disobedience does not amount to schism; schism requires that one not recognize the authority of the pope to command; disobedience consists in not obeying a command, whilst still acknowledging the authority of the one commanding. “The child who says ‘I won’t!’ to his mother does not deny that she is his mother” (Fr. Glover, in Is Tradition Excommunicated? p. 99
http://www.sspx.org/SSPX_FAQs/q12_sspxschismatic.htmI’d urge you to read the rest of that section, johnk, and then come back to tell us if you stick to your original position. I’m sure you will be honest enough to admit that you’ve, unfortunately, fallen for the propaganda.
As for the other “several traditional groups” in the Church – none of them would exist, but for the SSPX. We would have no Latin Mass Society, no Una Voce (Scottish LMS) and no FSSP & Company. The reason why so many of us prefer the SSPX Masses is that, apart from being guaranteed a dignified, uninterrupted Liturgy with strict adherence to the rubric, we are also guaranteed sound doctrinal sermons. Only this morning I heard Hell mentioned! I know young people who, after attending Catholic schools and modern Masses for over 30 years, have never heard Hell (and many other doctrines) mentioned in a sermon, oops, homily.
I’m interested in your closing remarks. What do you mean by “real evangelisation” and “stop picking off old time european already-catholics”?
I may have misunderstood so correct me if I’m wrong but isn’t “real evangelisation” now trumped by “ecumenism” and haven’t the “old time European already-Catholics” bought into the ecumenism thingy? And aren’t these same “old time European already-Catholics” perfectly at ease in their newer, if fewer, Mass? “old time Catholics”? In this day, age and crisis of Faith?
Really?
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johnk
Hello, I’m not sure if you have blogged here before; I certainly haven’t noticed you. I think you might have made a mistake in your last post.
“neither should he let the divisive schismatics of sspx use it” Schismatic? you can’t be talking about the Society of Saint Pius X. Take a look at these quotes.
In 2001, after a meeting between Bishop Bernard Fellay, SSPX Superior General, and two of the three other SSPX bishops with Cardinal Castrillón, Bishop Fellay said that the Cardinal had told him that he found them to be “neither heretics nor schismatics.”
“Retracing the complete life story of Archbishop Lefebvre, we are certain of the great esteem and appreciation of the Church for him. He was considered worthy of being an Archbishop, Apostolic Delegate, Superior General of his religious congregation; by speaking to people who knew him during the exercise of his ministry, the fecundity of his life is discovered.”
Cardinal Castrillon
“Unfortunately Monsignor Lefebvre went ahead with the consecration and hence the situation of separation came about, even if it was not a formal schism.”
“We are not confronted with a heresy. It cannot be said in correct, exact, and precise terms that there is a schism. They are within the Church. There is only the fact that a full, more perfect communion is lacking — as was stated during the meeting with Bishop Fellay — a fuller communion, because communion does exist.”
Cardinal Castrillon, August, 2005
” The bishops, priests and faithful of the Society of St Pius X are not schismatics. The priests and faithful of the Society have not been excommunicated. They are not heretics.”
Cardinal Castrillon, February 8th, 2007
“I know there are in the Fraternity people filled with good will. They are 500 priests and 600,000 faithful, a growing number, with monasteries and seminaries, some of them full.”
Cardinal Castrillon, 17th March, 2007
The respected German canonist Dr. Georg May, professor emeritus of Johannes Gutenberg University in Mainz, summarized the irony shown above in a January 12, 2003 letter, when he wrote: “The SSPX is not schismatic because she neither rejects the subordination to the Roman Pontiff nor rejects the communion with the bishops (can. 751).” And the explicit irony is found in the immediate following statement where Prof. Georg said, “Rather, the latter reject communion with the Society.”
The SSPX is not schismatic, because she neither rejects the subordination to the Roman Pope nor rejects the communion with the bishops (can. 751). Rather the latter reject communion with the Society. Because the Society is not schismatic, its members are not excommunicated. Both are untrue allegations, made by those, whom the reflective mirror presented to them by the Society irritates. Absolutely nobody incurs any punishment by attending the masses of the Society. Of course one can fulfill one’s Sunday obligation by attending a Sunday mass in a chapel or church of the Society. Whoever alleges otherwise, reveals that he merely fears concurrence.
You can see my confusion, johnk. The Vatican has continually reiterated that the SSPX are NOT schismatic. Perhaps you are thinking of another group? I know there are sedevacantist groups around, the SSPV, for example, so you might be getting mixed up. I hope I’ve helped make things clearer for you. God bless.
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Petrus, excellent post which went up at the same time as mine. It didn’t occur to me that johnk might be confusing the SSPX with the SSPV – I’m sure a lot of folk must do that, come to think of it, since they really do seem to think the SSPX doesn’t recognise the Pope.
Thanks for that clarification – very helpful, too, to have all those Cardinal Castrillon Hoyos quotes in one place! Twelve out of ten. If I find you have omitted any, I’ll deduct marks!
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Petrus,
You might wish to add this quote:
“I regard as viable the reconciliation with the fraternity Fraternity of Saint Pius X because, as we have often said at “Ecclesia Dei”, this is not a real schism but an anomalous situation which arose after the “schismatic action” of Msgr Lefebvre in conferring the episcopate without papal mandate, even against the express will of the Pope. In my heart I have great confidence that the Holy Father will be able to mend the fabric of the Church with the arrival of these brothers to full communion. Some differences will still remain, as we always had in the history of the Church”.
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Thanks Benet – that is a great quote to have to hand. “Not a real schism but an anomalous situation” – spot on.
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