In 1984, just before retiring at a venerable age, the diocesan Bishop of Niigata, Bishop John Shojiro Ito, in consultation with the Holy See, wrote a pastoral letter in which he recognized as being authentically of the Mother of God, the extraordinary series of events that had taken place from 1973 to 1981 in a little lay convent within his diocese, at Akita, Japan. Cardinal Ratzinger, now Pope Benedict XVI, in June 1988, approved the Akita events as “reliable and worthy of belief”.
In fact the Philippine ambassador to the Vatican, in 1998 spoke to Cardinal Ratzinger about Akita and the Cardinal: “personally confirmed to me that these two messages of Fatima and Akita are essentially the same”. Hence in Akita we are dealing with a Church approved intervention of the Blessed Virgin Mary as sure in this respect as Lourdes, La Salette, or Fatima. Click here to read more
Tags: akita, approved apparitions, fatima
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Thank you for starting the thread on the Akita Japan Apparitions of Our Holy Mother to Agnes Katsuko Sasagawa. I guess it would be best to kick it off with what I posted on the “Church’s New Mission: To Improve Environment” thread:
If we look at the 1973 Akita message “Fire will fall from the sky and will wipe out a great part of humanity, the good as well as the bad, sparing neither priests nor faithful” and compare that to the witness accounts of the Miracle of the Sun “”Then, suddenly, one heard a clamor, a cry of anguish breaking from all the people. The sun, whirling wildly, seemed all at once to loosen itself from the firmament and, blood red, advance threateningly upon the earth as if to crush us with its huge and fiery weight. The sensation during those moments was truly terrible” they seem to be one and the same.
http://www.fatima.org/essentials/facts/miracle.asp
This is Biblically confirmed: “On the day of the Lord’s wrath; And all the Earth will be devoured in fire” (Zepheniah 1 – 2). It appears that the Miracle of the Sun was an actual vision of the Great Chastisement.
God Bless
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Editor,
Absolutely fascinating. I had heard of Our Lady of Akita, but I knew practically nothing about the apparitions. Thank you for this.
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highlandpriest,
Thanks. It seems clear to me that the significance of Akita is that it confirms, absolutely, that the part of the Message of Fatima which the Vatican is refusing to release, concerns the apostasy within the Church. It is interesting that Cardinal Ratzinger confirms that the two messages are similar.
Insight,
Our Lady expressly said that the miracle of October 13th, the miracle of the sun, was “for all to see and believe”(Sr Lucy’s fourth memoir, p.161). So it was not “the Great Chastisement”. “By “see and believe” of course, Our Lady meant see and believe that she was appearing at Fatima and that her messages were authentic.
Sorry, but you have clearly NOT read the authorised and authentic literature or you would know that the conclusion reached by all the objective students of Fatima, is that the Message of Fatima, not fully released to us as yet, despite Our Lady’s stipulation that it was to be published in 1960, is not about world-catastrophes, not even about the end of the world (although Our Lady led Sr Lucy to understand that we are living in the end times, but that doesn’t mean the imminent end of the world) but about the crisis of faith and obedience that we are currently living through.
It strikes me that since the Popes and Bishops have not obeyed Our Lady of Fatima, she has made this truth known at Akita. That’s my amateur perspective but since there is nothing in the released parts of the Fatima Message about Cardinals being against Cardinals, Bishops against Bishops etc. and the other revelations about apostasy, that the Fatima scholars are correct in their deductions, that the third part of the Fatima Message (the “Third Secret”) is about the apostasy within the Church. As Cardinal Ciappa said: “in the Third Secret it is revealed that the apostasy in the Church begins at the top.”
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Hi Editor,
“Our Lady expressly said that the miracle of October 13th, the miracle of the sun, was “for all to see and believe”(Sr Lucy’s fourth memoir, p.161). So it was not “the Great Chastisement”. “By “see and believe” of course, Our Lady meant see and believe that she was appearing at Fatima and that her messages were authentic,” I think it was twofold, so that all may believe and that there was a Message to the Miracle. What could be the significance of the sun falling to the Earth?
Father John De Marchi spent seven years in interviewing Fatima Miracle witnesses. The following are some decriptions:
“The sun, at one moment surrounded with scarlet flame, at another aureoled in yellow and deep purple, seemed to be in an exceedingly swift and whirling movement, at times appearing to be loosened from the sky and to be approaching the earth, strongly radiating heat.”
“The sun’s disc did not remain immobile. This was not the sparkling of a heavenly body, for it spun round on itself in a mad whirl, when suddenly a clamor was heard from all the people. The sun, whirling, seemed to loosen itself from the firmament and advance threateningly upon the earth as if to crush us with its huge fiery weight. The sensation during those moments was terrible.”
“I feel incapable of describing what I saw. I looked fixedly at the sun, which seemed pale and did not hurt my eyes. Looking like a ball of snow, revolving on itself, it suddenly seemed to come down in a zig-zag, menacing the earth. Terrified, I ran and hid myself among the people, who were weeping and expecting the end of the world at any moment.”
I understand that some of those who post here have issues with the Blue Army of Fatima, The Founder of the Blue Army (John Haffert) personally interviewed about 200 witnessed to the Miracle of the Sun. These descriptions are in his book; “Fatima: Meet the Witnesses”. The following descriptions of the Miracle are from the audio by John Haffert that can be found on Wikipedia:
One witness was about 18 Kilometers away (approximately 11 miles) in the town of Alburitel. People were streaming along the road through the town, on their way to Fatima. The people in his town thought it was foolish to believe the three children who were predicting that there was going to be a Miracle that day. He described a man standing along the side of the road laughing, ridiculing and scoffing at the drove of people passing through the town; “Foolish people! For three children you are coming from where? Walking in this soaking rain!” It was a terrible rainstorm, a drenching downpour that was causing flooding. He said; “The sun began to move in the sky. Everyone noticed the change in the atmosphere. There were colors, and the sun began to move in the sky. People were so frightened that they all began to run to the Church. And then suddenly, the sun seemed to plunged down upon them” (7 minutes 30 seconds in).
Haffert interviewed a Portuguese woman (who was 22 years old at the time of the Miracle) in a church. They were next to a stained glass window depicting the Miracle of the Sun, a picture of a whirling sun with the colors streaming down. She pointed to the window and said; “It wasn’t like that! The sun came down upon us, we were all about to be burned alive!” Everyone within and area of 32 miles thought it was the end of the world (10 minutes in).
Another witness about 18 Kilometers away (about 11 miles) in the opposite direction. He was 12 years old at the time and was herding sheep. He said; “I don’t remember to this day what happened to the sheep. All I can remember is that this fireball came down upon the Earth and I knew I was about to be burned alive. And I ran, and I ran, and I ran. All I can remember is my fear. I often woke up at night, running. Running from the fire. We thought it was the end of the world. The fire of the sun was on top of us” (10 minutes 50 seconds in).
The very man who was scoffing at the people in the town of Alburitel fell to his knees confessing his sins and crying for mercy (11 minutes and 51 seconds in).
One of the witnesses was up to his calves in water. Haffert asked him why he didn’t find dry ground and he replied: “It was the only place I could find where I could see the children”. After the Miracle the ground and his clothes were completely dry (13 minutes 55 seconds).
You don’t need to be a rocket scientist to connect the dots on this one. “Fire will fall from the sky and will wipe out a great part of humanity” (Akita). “And all the Earth will be devoured in fire” (Zepheniah 1 – 2). For the Lord will execute judgment by fire And by His sword on all flesh, And those slain by the Lord will be many” (Isaiah 66:15).
“Sorry, but you have clearly NOT read the authorised and authentic literature or you would know that the conclusion reached by all the objective students of Fatima, is that the Message of Fatima, not fully released to us as yet, despite Our Lady’s stipulation that it was to be published in 1960, is not about world-catastrophes, not even about the end of the world (although Our Lady led Sr Lucy to understand that we are living in the end times, but that doesn’t mean the imminent end of the world) but about the crisis of faith and obedience that we are currently living through.
It strikes me that since the Popes and Bishops have not obeyed Our Lady of Fatima, she has made this truth known at Akita. That’s my amateur perspective but since there is nothing in the released parts of the Fatima Message about Cardinals being against Cardinals, Bishops against Bishops etc. and the other revelations about apostasy, that the Fatima scholars are correct in their deductions, that the third part of the Fatima Message (the “Third Secret”) is about the apostasy within the Church. As Cardinal Ciappa said: “in the Third Secret it is revealed that the apostasy in the Church begins at the top” You may be correct regarding the Secret. This may be very third party, but I have a friend, who has a relative who worked in the Vatican. They believe that Pope John XXIII is the one who put the stop order on it.God Bless
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Editor,
I don’t profess to be as au fait as you are with Fatima. It is hard enough for us to interpret the Book of Revelation let alone private revelations like Fatima.
What I will say is this. We have reached a point–certainly in the West–where God and his revelation delivered in the person of his only-begotten Son are daily mocked and derided. It seems that the vast majority of men care only for the here and now. We are ever less interested in history, we are no longer capable of producing great art (be it painting, poetry or music), our philosophy is basically that there are and can be no certainty beyond the realm of what can be described by the language of mathematics. We even think that man and the universe which he inhabits is basically the chance comibation of elements, and this ultimately destroys everything, first and foremost any idea of right and wrong and the corresponding virtues and vices. And the Church? She should be telling people to repent, but at it is we have the like of Peter Kearney telling us how similar we are to Protestants, many of whom now refuse to speak of Jesus as the only Saviour is order not to be thought ‘exclusive’ of other religions.
It seems to me that God would be fully justified in pressing the reset button on all of this.
What is needed is wholesale repentence, starting with the Church.
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Highlandpriest,
Absolutely spot on. If only we had more priests like you it would be a whole new ball game. Thank you!
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I was unaware until comparatively recent times in regards to the Apparitions at Akita. That Cardinal Ratzinger, now Pope Benedict confirmed to the Phillipine Ambassador that the messages of Akita and Fatima are essentially the same is amazing. Nowadays Fatima does seem to be derided and most likely to our cost. The Rosary and the Consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary plus penance is requested.
In a conversation recently the topic of Saint Margaret Mary came up. In the 17th century she received Apparitions of our Blessed Lord. She was given a message for King Louis XIV of France, asking for France to be consecrated to the Sacred Heart of Jesus, which never happened. Exactly 100 years to the day King Louis, (I think the XVI) was executed during the French Revolution – http://www.traditioninaction.org/religious/a001rp.htm
The 100th anniversary of ‘The miracle at Fatima’ on 13th October 1917 is only 7 years in the future. What then?
The Sacred Heart of Jesus and the Immaculate Heart of Mary are closely linked.Am glad to have overcome the computer problems of late.
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Hi HighLandPriest,
On a positive note, when the fire from the sun was about to touch the Earth and everyone thought they were about to die, the sun returned to its original position. Maybe that is a sign that God may spare us at the last minute.
The following is just speculative guessing. Seeking information concerning phenomenon that could explain “the fire from the sun detaching itself and falling upon the Earth”, there is an IMAX documentary on the sun entitled “Solar Max”. Approximately 22 minutes and 23 seconds into the film there is a possible explanation. “Recently scientists have found that suns like ours normally produce a superflare, about once every century”. This is a short burst of energy that sometimes occurs during a magnetic pole shift, in which a star’s corona can temporarily flare out
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superflare
If our sun behaved similarly, the superflare could momentarily engulf some the inner planets, “We are fortunate that our sun appears to be more stable than most other suns”. One important clue is that the Miracle of the Sun lasted for approximately ten minutes, the time it takes photons of light from the sun to reach the Earth. Another clue is that “stars like our sun normally emit these superflares”. Contrarily, so far, our sun has not. Has God been protecting our Earth from such occurrences for millions of years? Does the sun returning to its position during the Miracle of the Sun show that He will spare us from some calamity?
Hi Gloria,
That’s interesting, because Josyp Terelya said the same thing before he died, that the conclusion of Fatima would be 2017.
God Bless
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Insight,
Your post should induce us to reflect just how precarious is the position of human beings in the great scheme of things. If the West has espunged God it is also because its technological capacity runs parallel to the relative rarity of natural disasters. Events in the Gulf of Mexico and the havoc created over Europe’s skies by dust plumes the Icelandic volcano should make us reflect that there is no guarantee that nature will always be so benign.
But my greatest beef is with the Church. Obviously not with the institution itself, but with many of those who compose the hiearchy and the clergy, to say nothing of their lay minions.
All too often, we present the Catholic faith à la Peter Kearney, i.e. as some kind of supernaural-ish comfort blanket which comes in various colours and sizes, from the Roman Catholic version to the Protestant. But what is almost never allowed to emerge is the Truth of the faith. And it is precisely for this reason that Mass attendance in Scotland is, to quote Bishop Devine’s remark of a few years ago, in free fall.
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Highlandpriest
The only thing that I would add is that Fatima is far from a private revelation. Far from it. Indeed, wasn’t it Pope John Paul II who said that Fatima imposed an obligation on the Church? Fatima is in a whole different league to private revelations.
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Off-topic
Irish Daily Mail Monday, May
17, 2010.
MORAL MATTERS: SIN WITHIN THE CHURCH IS BORN IN SEMINARIES
Dr Mark Dooley (He’s a layman and contract lecturer at Maynooth)“We in Ireland are currently witnessing a similar, if not much worse form of desecration.
As I wrote in this newspaper last Wednesday, Irish seminaries are hotbeds of serious
moral decay which is devastating the Church in this country.
Their culture is one which rejects piety and holiness in favour of religious laxity and
moral confusion. This is resulting in priests who, as I wrote, barely believe in the doctrine
they are ordained to promote.
Once again, in other words, the temple has been hijacked by those Christ banished from
its courts. This time, however, they are not in the business of changing money and selling
doves, but of prostituting their priestly principles to an ideology which runs contrary to
their faith.That is the source not only of my anger, but of the deep frustration felt by scores of
seminarians who must live with this problem while preparing for the priesthood.” -
Petrus,
Be careful, because if Fatima is not to be assigned to the realm of private revelation (which is where I believe the Church puts it), it can only be public revelation. That, dear Petrus, is heresy and flies in the face of the teaching of Pope Benedict XIV. No-one is at a disadvantage for not having heard of a particular private revelation, for private revelations do not add one jot to the public revelation given in Jesus Christ and which ended with the death of the last apostle.
I beg you, be careful, and stick to the time-honoured principle taught by St. Vincent of Lérins: quod ubique, quod semper, quod ab omnibus creditum est.
The principle of an ‘open’ public revelation flies in the face of faith.
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I see what you’re saying, Father, but how can a private revelation impose an obligation on the Church? How can a private revelation include a public miracle?
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highlandpriest,
with respect, to oppose what your rightly describe is “the Catholic faith à la Peter Kearney,” flies in the face of the teaching of Pope Benedict, so that is really not an issue.
The fact is that there is, surely, a distinction to be made (as Fr Gruner said in one of his excellent talks at the recent Fatima conference) between the public revelation which ended with the last apostle – i.e. the deposit of the Faith – and public PROPHETIC warnings – which did not end with the death of the last apostle and which can, indeed, occur at God’s will. They happened before the coming of Christ (see various examples in the Old Testament) and they can continue after – as Fatima confirms.
Petrus is correct to point out that the present Pope has not contradicted his predecessor who said AT Fatima, that the Fatima Message “imposed an obligation on the Church.” Fatima is no private revelation. As Father Gruner explained it, if you or I had a vision from Heaven, that is a private revelation that the faithful are free to accept or reject.
However, when God makes it so plain, through, not least the miracle of the sun witnessed by 70,000 plus people and not all in one place either, then we are dealing with a public, prophetic warning, not a private revelation.
Reading the Akita messages, it is, to me, very clear that God decided, when 1960 passed and the rest of that decade, without the Pope obeying His command, given through His mother, to release the third part of the message (undeniably revealing the apostasy in the Church which we are now living through) that Our Lady returned to give that message at Akita.
Our Lady came to Fatima to warn – and when the warning was ignored, she returned to reveal the truth at Akita. In 1960 we were being warned, 1973-1981, it was a case of impending doom. Now we see the truth laid bare before our very eyes. Cardinals ARE pitted against Cardinals, Bishops against Bishops and so on.
Fatima has been described as “the most important event of the 20th century” by all those who have studied the subject thoroughly. Nobody has ever said that about any “private revelation,” to the best of my knowledge.
Insight,
Our Lady specified the day and the hour when she would return with a miracle so that all would “see and believe” that she was appearing at Fatima and that her messages were authentically from God. It is an insult – an expression of doubt – to suggest that the miracle, which occurred on the day and at the time specified by her in advance, was a natural phenomenon.
Insight, I have responded to your post on the Environment thread, by interjecting comment on your post. You have a habit of repeating almost entire messages from previous bloggers so it makes it harder to search our your own comments. Therefore, I’ve saved some time and energy by posting comments in bold type, in your post.
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Editor,
I don’t think you appreciate the theological and doctrinal enormity of what your are saying. Pace Father Guerner (by the way, I didn’t know that he was learned in theology), but Christ is the ‘Logos’, God’s ‘word’ as St. John calls him. Now if God speaks, his Word (‘logos’) cannot but be definitive. This is the radical ‘novum’ of Christianity which is summed up to great effect not only in the Prologue to St. John’s Gospel, but also in the Prologue (1,1-4) of the Letter to the Hebrews. Allow me to quote it in full:
“In many and various ways God spoke of old to our fathers by the prophets; but in these last days he has spoken to us by a Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world. He reflects the glory of God and bears the very stamp of his nature, upholding the universe by his word of power. When he had made purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, having become as much superior to angels as the name he has obtained is more excellent than theirs.”
Theologians define the Divine Revelation prior to Christ as ‘mediate’ revelation, precisely because it proceeds with the help of human mediators, of whom the best example is probably Moses. In the New and Eternal Alliance there is a substantial change. The mediator of the Revelation will no longer be a ‘prophet’ but is the Son of God made man who shares with the Father the Divine Nature. Thus theologians term the revelation of the New Testament ‘Immediate’ revelation, because God, Mediator and revelation are one. It is the very person of Christ who is the Revelation which is expressed in his words and deeds. As such, this Revelation can only be the fulness of truth. There cannot be bits left out which would have been revealed through a mere creature (however exalted) at Fatima.
Please reflect on this, because this is a most serious matter. I am sure that you would not want to lead other souls astray on what would be an enormous heresy and would involve the re-writing of the Christian creed.
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highlandpriest,
Nobody is suggesting that “bits (were) left out of Revelation which were revealed at Fatima”. Not at all.
But I think it is obvious that there is a difference between a private revelation to an individual (e.g. Sacred Heart to St Margaret Mary) and a public prophetic revelation such as Fatima/miracle of the sun.
If there is no difference, why did Pope John Paul II say that Fatima imposes an obligation on the Church? What obligation, if not to believe and act on it? That has never been said before about any private revelation. On the contrary, the Church has been at pains to be cautious and to emphasize that we can believe or not, as we wish.
With respect, you seem to think that placing Fatima in the sphere of public prophecy (which it patently is, given the huge numbers of faithful, atheists and masons who witnessed the miracle of the sun) is at odds with the Creed – far from it. As the Third Secret revealed (no doubt about it) and as Akita confirms, God has intervened in our history in the 20th century precisely because we are seeing widespread apostasy from the Christian creed.
No pope has ever said that any private revelation “imposes an obligation on the Church”. The fact that Pope John Paul II said this about Fatima, places Fatima in an entirely different category from a purely private revelation.
And, with much respect, highlandpriest, no soul will be placed in danger for following the Fatima messages. On the contrary, it is those hardened souls who refuse to accept the truth of Fatima who are very seriously at risk – not least those popes and others who have read the Third Secret and refuse to divulge it and to obey Our Lady’s request to consecrate Russia, as instructed. Very seriously at risk, indeed.
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Yes, but he didn’t say what that obligation was. He could have been speaking about a generic moral obligation of conversion, which is to be found in the Gospel preached by Christ.
And with respect to you, there is nothing, absolutely nothing, in Fatima that a soul could not gain through the knowledge and grace imparted by the Sacred Deposit of the Word of God which is Scripture and Tradition.
A closing thought. None of the pre-conciliar Popes who knew about Fatima ever thought of attributing to it the weight which you would attribute to it. How come?
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Another thought,
If the Revelation delivered through Jesus Christ is deficient until Fatima, can you please tell me how those who lived through those times had an honest chance to save themselves?
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Yet another thought,
The phenomenon of the sun at Fatima, which not only does not seem to have been recorded by recognised astronomical agencies but also does not appear to have been seen by all of those present, how is it more public than the stigmata received by St. Francis?
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highlandpriest,
It seems that you doubt the authenticity of the Fatima apparitions, so there is nothing anyone will be able to say to you to convince you otherwise. I’ve no intention of trying since all the evidence is available in writings such as the three volume work of Frere Michel, the talks posted on the website http://www.fatimachallenge.com and the book I recommend above, by Mark Fellows – all of these sources come complete with source documentation and, certainly in the case of Frere Michel, nobody has ever challenged a sentence in his works.
If Fatima is not true and the miracle of the sun is not true (witnessed by atheists and freemasons, including journalists who reported it, with photographs, in the Communist/Masonic newspaper at the time and foretold by Our Lady who specified the precise date and time it would occur) then you have the problem of explaining how the Church has beatified the two seers, Francisco and Jacinta. Not to mention the fact that those two children foretold their own deaths (or, rather, reported that Our Lady has said they would go to Heaven soon, but Lucia would remain on earth a while longer. They both died a year later.)
But, why are you asking me how before Fatima, souls could be saved? That’s ridiculous. I have explicitly said that there is no question of bits being missing from the Revelation of Christ nor did I say that Revelation was deficient and I’ve never even mentioned any issue about souls being saved before Fatima.
The fact is that Fatima is approved by the Church. If only you would take time to read the authenticated literature, you would come to realise that Fatima, like Akita, is all part of God’s divine mercy.
We have an unprecedented crisis in the Church thanks to bad priests, bad bishops and less than perfect popes. If you find it difficult to appreciate the lengths that God is going to, to bring us BACK to the Revelation of Christ then maybe it’s time to remind you of those chilling words of Sr Lucia, to the effect that we mustn’t wait for the clergy to take the lead, we must live out the Fatima message ourselves.
Perhaps the very idea of God using three illiterate children to remind us that we are falling into Hell through neglect of the Gospel (and thus, the teaching of the Church) is just too much for the men with theology degrees up to their necks but very little faith.
As to your question about the stigmata of St Francis – that can only be answered by Our Lady or God Himself because it was Heaven’s decision to make the miracle of the sun so public.
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As for pre-Conciliar Popes attributing weight to Fatima, here is an excerpt from the Wikipedia article on Our Lady of Fatima (I noticed several mistakes in the article, hopefully there are none in this excerpt):
On 31 October 1942, Pope Pius XII, in a radio address, informed the people of Portugal about the apparitions of Fatima, consecrating the human race to the Immaculate Heart of the Virgin with specific mention of Russia. (See below)[55] On 8 December 1942, the Pontiff officially and solemnly declared this consecration in a ceremony in Saint Peter’s Basilica in Rome. On 13 May 1946, Cardinal Masalla, the personal delegate of Pius XII, crowned in his name Our Lady of Fátima, as the Pope issued a second message about Fatima:
* “The faithful virgin never disappointed the trust, put on her. She will transform into a fountain of graces, physical and spiritual graces, over all of Portugal, and from there, breaking all frontiers, over the whole Church and the entire world”.[56]
On 1 May 1948, in Auspicia Quaedam, Pope Pius XII requested the consecration to the Immaculate Heart of every Catholic family, parish and diocese.
* “It is our wish, consequently, that wherever the opportunity suggests itself, this consecration be made in the various dioceses as well as in each of the parishes and families.” [57][58]
On 18 May 1950, the Pope again sent a message to the people of Portugal regarding Fátima: “May Portugal never forget the heavenly message of Fátima, which, before anybody else she was blessed to hear. To keep Fátima in your heart and to translate Fátima into deeds, is the best guarantee for ever more graces”.[59] In numerous additional messages, and in his encyclicals Fulgens Corona (1953), and Ad Caeli Reginam (1954), Pius XII encouraged the veneration of the Virgin in Fatima.
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As for the public vs. private nature of Fatima, it seems to me, though I am an ignoramus in such matters, that it was both. The revelations to the shepherd children were, obviously, private, whilst the “Miracle of the Sun,” equally as obvious, was public.
Further, the “Miracle of the Sun” was not in itself a revelation or prophecy, but just a demonstration of the veracity of Mary’s messages to the children, and a demonstration of heavenly power.
As for Father Gruner and our present Holy Father, his latest letter to his supporters begins with this May 13, 2010 quote from Pope Benedict:
Whoever thinks that the prophetic mission of Fatima is over, is deceived…May these 7 years that divide us from the centennial of the apparitions bring forth soon the foreseen triumph of the Immaculate Heart of Mary.
Now, if that’s not approval, they must have changed the meaning of the word while I wasn’t looking…
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Hi HighLandPriest,
I think Mass attendance is in a freefall because the Church seems to be imploding. Everyone seems to feel that it is their job to accuse each other and to point fingers at their neighbor. The Church is beginning to resemble the Chief Priests, Doctors of the Law, Pharisees, and Scribes in the time of Jesus. Here is the US, the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops (USCCB) have funneled over $280 Million to pro-abortion groups:
http://www.realcatholictv.com/cia
Catholic Colleges have Pro-Life Priests arrested for praying the Rosary on campus and fully prosecuted, while decorating an extremely pro-abortion President. Obama voted against the Born Alive Protection Act (BAPA) three times. This act was to provide medical treatment to victims of very late term abortions that are born alive. Previously, hospitals were putting these babies in cold boxes to die from exposure. No thanks to Obama who was adamantly against it, the Act did pass.
http://www.voting4life.org/Pages/007_Notre_Dame.htm
As far as the Miracle of the Sun, I suggest you read: “Fatima: Meet the Witnesses” by John Haffert. He personally interviewed 200 witnesses. Everyone experienced the Miracle up to 32 miles away. The Miracle was to take place at high noon at the Cova. That is were it took place, those who weren’t there did not experience it. Public Revelation ended with the death of John. Private Revelation are communications by God, who has not left His Children. These communications are important and relevant to our times. God is a Parent, and has not left us after the death of John.
Hi Editor,
“It is an insult – an expression of doubt – to suggest that the miracle, which occurred on the day and at the time specified by her in advance, was a natural phenomenon”:
I think you misread my post. Obviously the Miracle of the Sun was a Miracle. Obviously the Miracle was given so that all would believe. But what was the meaning of the Fire from the sun falling onto the Earth? We know the 1973 Akita message was: “Fire will fall from the sky and will wipe out a great part of humanity”. The Bible tells us: “On the day of the Lord’s wrath; And all the Earth will be devoured in fire” (Zepheniah 1 – 2).
I was very clear that I was only speculating that perhaps sometime in the future the Earth may be threatened by a superflare, perhaps in 2017 as Gloria pointed out. Maybe it would be something directly from God. I definitely did not suggest that the Miracle itself was a natural phenomenon. But on the other hand, perhaps in 2017 it might be. Will God allow it to happen? Will God allow nature to take its coarse? Will it be a punishment directly from God? These are speculations.
God Bless
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Interesting find, sounds very similar to the 1973 Akita Message:
THIRD – The true text of the third part of the Secret of Fátima?
“But for the Church there will be a time of great trials. Cardinals will oppose Cardinals and Bishops will oppose Bishops. Fire and smoke will fall from Heaven and the waters of the oceans will be vaporized. Millions of men will die from hour to hour and those who remain alive will envy those who have died”
http://www.mgrfoundation.org/FatimaSecretModifiedPart2.html
God Bless
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Insight,
Fr Gruner said on one of the Fatima Challenge videos that John Haffert used to be very good but once the Vatican silenced Lucy and said the consecration had been done etc. he went along with that, so he is a modern Catholic, not reliable any more.
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Hi Rebel,
Found this on John Haffert:
“Working with Sister Lucia, who saw Our Lady of Fatima as a child in 1917, Mr. Haffert developed a “Fatima Message Pledge” in 1946. In 1948, that effort became known as “The Blue Army Pledge,” as John joined his successful Brown Scapular Apostolate to the fledgling Blue Army Apostolate founded in 1947 by Monsignor Harold Colgan. From that point on, millions of people have learned about The Fatima Message through The Blue Army, with its National Headquarters at the Blue Army Shrine of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, in Washington, New Jersey and its International Headquarters at Domus Pacis in Fatima, Portugal. John Haffert’s entire life has been spent in the service of the Church, etc.”
http://www.twoheartsdesign.com/jmh_obit.html
Haffert was very concerned about the omission of Russsia. He personally asked Sister Lucy if Our Holy Mother’s conditions were met. “Sister Lucia was asked: “Was this consecration as made by the Holy Father in union with the bishops of the world, what Our Lord and Our Lady require according to the apparition of June 13, 1929?” According to Sister Lucy, it was accepted by Our Lady. Ed: absolute tosh. Sister Lucia never said any such thing. Haffert backed off and accepted Sister Lucia’s answer. Ed: Tosh – he went along with the propaganda. The Consecration was done half baked, maybe that is why the conversion of Russia seems to be half baked. Ed: Either the Consecration has been done or it’s not been done. It’s not been done. End of.
According to the following link, Cardinal Antony Padiyare also questioned Sister Lucy to the same affect, and got the same answer. Ed: give sources please. Not Haffert – a first class source. The same link also has a lot of nasty stuff to say about Fr. Gruner. Ed: that figures.
http://www.unitypublishing.com/Apparitions/FATHER%20NICHOLAS%20GRUNER.html
More on Haffert:
http://www.advancedchristianity.com/Pages/Haffert/Haffert_001.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Haffert
God Bless
Ed: God will not bless you, Insight, while you spread false information about Fatima and the M place.
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Hi Ed,
Dr. Rosalie Turton assured that this took place, and that the rumors surrounding Haffert were completely fabricated by those who refuse to accept the truth. The truth is what actually occurred, not what some would prefer to have occurred.
God Bless
Ed: you are refusing to acknowledge what really occurred and you insist on repeating falsehoods. You quote or cite obscure sources. What does Frere Michel say on any of the controversies, from the Third Secret to the Consecration of Russia? Do you know? (even his enemies have never challenged a word of any of his three volume work on Fatima).
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Fatima is true and Medugory is a lot of (Ed: vulgarity removed – sentiment of blogger = M is a lot of baloney)
Ed: do not use such vulgar language on this blog. It makes a nonsense of your professed belief in Fatima.
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Hi Editor,
There may be another, I think I can recall video of Cardinal Antony Padiyare meeting with Sister Lucia in the Documentary by Ricardo Montalban. She said the conditions were met. As soon as I get a change, I’ll view it again to find the exact spot.
Ed: Sister Lucia has NEVER said that Russia has been consecrated. She is on authentic record, through her confessor/spiritual director among others, saying the opposite. Read Frere Michel Volume III
Karol,
Fatima is certainly true. Some think the facts support that Medjugorje is authentic. The Vatican will get to the bottom of it. (Ed: The Vatican already has but is too scared of the reaction of the fanatics, to say so. Hence this Commission.)
The Code of Canon Law – Book II, Part II, Section I, Chapter I, Article I – gives the Pope full and supreme power over all levels of the Church and free use to exercise this power. The Papal order came first. Canon law prohibits this Papal order from being reversed by subordinate levels of Church authority. Canon law clearly requires that this Papal order be embraced with unconditional acceptance and submission. (Ed: I’m not sure to what you are referring here so will check out before responding. The Pope, however, can NEVER change Catholic teaching so all statements on “supreme pontifical power” must be read in that light.)
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__P16.HTM
First Vatican Council, Session IV, Chp. IV, p.IX: “So, then, if anyone says that the Roman Pontiff has merely an office of supervision and guidance, and not the full and supreme power of jurisdiction over the whole Church, and this not only in matters of faith and morals, but also in those which concern the discipline and government of the Church dispersed throughout the whole world; or that he has only the principal part, but not the absolute fullness, of this supreme power; or that this power of his is not ordinary and immediate both over all and each of the Churches and over all and each of the pastors and faithful: let him be anathema.” – Catechism of the Catholic Church, 883 – “The college or body of bishops has no authority unless united with the Roman Pontiff, Peter’s successor, as its head.” (Ed: I don’t know why you are quoting this because nobody here is challenging the Pope’s legitimate authority. Only you and other Medjugorje fanatics challenge the legitimate authority of bishops.)
God Bless
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Hi Editor,
My apologies, I watch the video Documentary: “Fatima” by Ricardo Montalban. I was mistaken, It was Bishop Alberto Cosme Amaral, of Leiria Fatima Portugal. He met with Sister Lucia regarding the third secret, not concerning whether the Consecration was acceptable. Sorry about that, haven’t seen the video for quite a while.
God Bless
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Highland Priest
PUBLIC AND PRIVATE REVERLATION.
Is God’s Word Inviolate?Re: Divine Mercy. Sister Faustina.
Blasphemy In God’s House
I have read some of your comments and I am impressed by the clarity of most of your answers do not be flattered by this as I am uneducated and have only made a few post’s on different sites all in the last nine months all relating to the same article. Divine Mercy
I am posting this article again on this site. On thread 4 In a different format to the one I posted on this site September 09 Thread 3 (and I hope with more clarity) as to-date I have not received a satisfactory answer on this site or any other and I am hoping that you can shed some light on this matter for me.
I would be grateful if you would read it and give me your opinion with the same clarity of teaching that you have given to others on this site.To all searching for truth on this site.
May the light of the New Born Jesus dwell in our hearts and it’s radiance embellish itself within us and the gift of his joy be ours
The kingdom of God is not coming with signs to be observed; nor will they say, Lo here it is, or There! for behold the kingdom of God is in the midst of you
God’s Word is manifest through his lovers.
God himself still speaks to mankind through his lovers.kevin
In Christ. -
kevin,
We found your posts difficult to understand last time you were here, but the obvious answer to your question “is God’s word inviolate?” is – of course God’s Word is inviolate.
I am presuming that you hold to the Catholic meaning of “God’s Word.”
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Editor
Thank you for your reply please in charity bear with me.
I assume that you mean that private revelations are not binding. Only on the person receiving them.
Have I made the correct assumption. -
kevin, before I answer your question/assumption, would you explain to ME, why Our Lord said to St Margaret Mary “make known to My ministers…”?
Also, why Our Lady gave the three children messages to be written down and passed on to the Bishop of the Diocese – and why she made the request for us all to pray the rosary daily and to add the end of decade prayer to our rosaries? Also, why she told the children there would be a miracle on a specific day at a specific time?
Once you have replied to these questions, I will definitely respond to yours – gladly.
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Editor
I am one of those catholic’s who does not know the difference between Hans Kung and
King Kong until this weekend I new nothing about St.Margret herself and I do not know a lot about Fatima.
I am a lay catholic I learnt my catechism by rote Leaving school at fifteen unable to read with a very basic education but well versed in truthfulness what a relief it was then the Latin mass ended and then I could participate fully in the mass. I reflect with sadness as so many adults around me were unable to participate. But the rich and the educated were very visible, but we the poor still had the Gospel(said in English) and many lived it, in the slums we lived in.I have listened to the Gospel’s and sermon’s at mass over many years and I can only give you my understanding of what God’s Word means to myself from these teachings and reflections.
I base all my arguments on these basic beliefs
God is Love/Truth /Life his Word is Holy it is all powerful cannot err nor be misunderstood nor contradict itself, it cannot be questioned it is untouchable cannot be altered or trifled with it is inviolate
Sin is any thing We covet in preference to the Love of God
And it is. What ’s in your heart that matters to God
Jesus was God on earth and is God now in Heaven
The Holy Spirit blows on the divine spark in our hearts to enlighten us and encourage us to search for truth. He is truth and also God. I search for truth, we have a contradiction in teaching.
That is why I have asked the two Shepherd’s who have the authority to teach on this site to give me clarity and understanding concerning this matter.kevin
In Christ -
kevin,
Thank you for your very clear post and be assured, being “uneducated” in the academic sense i.e. having a lot of book learning and so on, is not important.
Indeed, in this matter under discussion, it is a feature of many, if not most, of the appearances of Our Lady that she appears to children (simple souls by definition) who cannot read or write – as in the case of Lucy at Fatima, Our Lady told her to learn to read, and that was because, in due course, Lucy would have to write down the so called “Secret” to pass on to her bishop. It is, in fact, the so called “intellectuals” who are often lacking in real Faith. Too clever for their own good, literally!
So, to answer your question, “are private revelations only binding on the person receiving them” – that answer is as follows.
If Our Lady appears to you or me and tells us she wants us to say fifteen decades of the rosary every day, that is a private revelation and only applies to you or me. That cannot be binding on anyone else. We are not even obliged to believe that it is true, that the vision/message ever took place. There’s a woman in the Surrey area, whose name is (I’m ashamed to say) Patricia, who claims to have visions and messages from Our Lady. I don’t believe it for a second. Some of the things she’s said are clearly contrary to the Faith already revealed (a major, first clue) and she has made money out of her “messages” (a second major clue) so I do not believe any of her claims.
However, if Our Lady appears to you or me and tells us to tell the bishop that she wants everyone to say the fifteen decades, then that is a different matter. The Bishop then has to investigate to ensure that this message comes from Heaven and then he will say either “there is nothing supernatural happening here – so ignore it” or “this message is worthy of belief and I recommend it to the faithful to help in their spiritual lives”.
Then, the position is that the Church is making available to us another means of gaining graces. To say it is “binding” is misleading. We still don’t HAVE to say the fifteen decades, although if we knew Our Lady really wanted that, we would do our level best to do as she asked. But that’s different from, say the Sunday obligation to attend Mass. There would still be no obligation to say the fifteen decades of the rosary.
One example is that some Catholics have the picture of the Sacred Heart in their homes while others do not. The promises of the Sacred Heart are recommended to us by the Church as being of divine origin and a marvellous help to our spiritual lives. For example, many, if not most Catholics know about the promise of the Sacred Heart to provide a priest when we are in danger of death, so making the First Fridays (i.e. attending Mass on the First Friday of every month for nine consecutive months) is a common practice in the Church. I have never heard any Catholic say “that’s just a private revelation so I’m not bothering with it” and I’ve heard amazing stories of how Catholics have had a priest come to their death bed in the most unlikely circumstances. One such incident happened not that long ago, and our website, wonderfully, was the instrument used by God to effect His promise because, as the priest said to me afterwards, at some point in her life, that lady would have made the First Fridays and God kept His promise to help her (with the Sacraments) at the point of death, even though it seemed impossible, in human terms, or at least highly unlikely, that she would be able to receive Extreme Unction.
So, there’s a message sent to an individual (St Margaret Mary) which He wanted spread throughout the Church – how “private” is that?
Fatima is in a different league again, because in this case, for the first time in the history of the Church and world, a public miracle was prophesied to the specific date and hour and was witnessed by a crowd of over 70,000 people including atheists, freemasons and journalists who had come to mock but who reported the miracle without animosity in their masonic newspapers in a Communist governed country, and were converted to the Catholic Faith on the spot. All of this is well documented with evidence – photographic evidence – at the time. If you go to http://www.fatima.org you can read lots more and if you visit http://www.fatimachallenge.com and watch the videos of that recent Fatima Conference (which I had the privilege of attending) you will hear very interesting talks on the subject.
As I’ve indicated above in my previous post to you, Kevin, it is clear from many so-called private revelations that God wishes his messages to be passed on to others. Our Lord told St Margaret Mary to “tell My ministers…” and, in fact, Our Lord also appeared to Sr Lucy of Fatima and reminded her of the failure of the three Kings of France to obey His request to consecrate France to His Sacred Heart, telling Sr Lucy to give the following message to the church hierarchy: “tell My ministers that if they follow the example of the King of France, they will follow him into misfortune.”
One hundred years to the day after Our Lord had asked the King of France (Louis XIV) to consecrate France to His Sacred Heart – which he failed to do – his successor (Lous XVI) was guillotined in 1793 by the French revolutionaries. Our Lord is stating clearly that if the Popes continue to disobey His request, delivered through His Mother, then they, too, will meet with “misfortune.”
People, including priests, who continue to argue that Fatima is a merely “private revelation” that we can take or leave, are in danger of being guilty of the “unforgiveable sin” – the sin against the Holy Spirit or to put it another way, the sin of denying the manifest truth.
When God effects a miracle such as that witnessed by a huge population at Fatima, when the prophecies of Fatima have come true before our very eyes, when the facts are so easily available to check, then it is a very serious thing indeed – especially for a priest or bishop – to refuse to recognise the truth of what Pope John Paul II said at the shrine of Fatima, that Fatima “imposes an obligation on the Church.”
What obligation, if not to believe and act on the Fatima Message?
I hope this helps, Kevin, but I am in for another very busy week, not least trying to finish the July edition, so be patient with me, please, if I don’t answer your questions as promptly as both you and I would like! I will do so eventually, if no other blogger has beat me to it. Thanks again for your honest post – and remember, book learning is the least of your worries. You are on the right track about the important things and that’s all that matters.
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Highland Priest & Caledonianpriest
PUBLIC AND PRIVATE REVERLATION. We have a contradiction.
Is God’s Word Inviolate?
Re: Divine Mercy. Sister Faustina.
Blasphemy In God’s HouseRequest for the two Shepherd’s who have the authority to teach God’s Word who visit this site. To give me clarity and understanding concerning this matter. See link 4
Editor
Thank you for your reply and the gentle kindness of your remakes
By the way I do have some knowledge of the Sacred Heart but I did not know that this revelation came from St Margret.
When I came on this site in September’09 I knew nothing about private and public revelation. Then when I went onto over sites the premise that I was making was partially undermined because it related to a private revelation and that private revelation is not binding on the laity and quite rightly to.
I know from reading different threads on this site you have given and give a lot of effort to the cause of Our Lady of Fatima and that you have an ardent belief in the messages. All revelation given by God to his church on earth must direct us to the love of The Father as revealed by his Son Jesus Christ If it does not it cannot be from the Holy Spirit. We have the recorded word of Mary herself In the Gospels“Do what ever my son tells you” .
If your search for truth is true as I am sure that it is Mary’s word will lead you away from herself to her son Jesus “If you continue in my Word you are truly my Disciples, and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free. Given that the journey home to our Father’s house is different for all of us we can only hope and pray for each other that all arrive home safely.
For my self personally the arduous struggle of faith is encapsulated In Our Lords Words
Do not fear, only believe
Belief brings trust
Trust teaches us to lean on God himself No Other.
It is written that you shall Worship the Lord your God and No Other shall you serve
I would feel that it would be an act of betrayal not to trust in God’s love and mercy
If in my private pray I prayed to a Saint to ask him/her to intercede for me and then I look at Jesus in the reflection of my heart, these words would come to mind “Lean on me for I am meek and humble of heart and you shall find rest for your soul. For my yoke is easy and my burden light“. How can I ask another to intercede when God himself promises to dwell in my heart it would be an act of betrayal of trust
I know that my heart is comparable to a broken mirror and I know that to day I will sin many times but in trust I can cry out Father we only have to turn to you and always you give the morning dew, your heart is nailed to a tree so that we dance free when we bend our knee,
Jesus I trust in thee.kevin
In Christ
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