Below is a message from blogger Kevin1. Since we’ve never had a thread on Islam, I thought I would seek permission to use his message to kick start a discussion on the topic before 30 June.
Kevin1 writes:
A thought for your blog before it closes – I saw this video recently, What do your readers think about Islam in relation to Fatima, being as it was never mentioned by Our Lady of Fatima? Islam could hardly be described as ‘Russia’s errors’ . . . Where does Islam fit into all this? When Russia is consecrated, will they all convert? End
Tell us your thoughts about the Fatima Connection to Islam – is there one?
Tags: conversion of russia, fatima, islam, muslim princess
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Editor
I have read somewhere that Our Lady chose Fatima as the site of her appearances because of that name’s connection to Islam:
Fatimah…a daughter of the Islamic prophet Muhammad from his first wife Khadijah bint Khuwaylid.[1][2] She is regarded by Muslims as an exemplar for men and women.[4][5] She remained at her father’s side through the difficulties suffered by him at the hands of the Quraysh of Mecca. After migration to Medina, she married Ali (Ali ibn Abi Talib), Muhammad’s cousin, and was mother to four of his children. She died a few months after her father, and was buried in Jannat Al-Baqi’ in the city of Medina, although the exact location of her grave is unknown. Most Shias believe that she was injured when defending Ali against the first Caliphate, and that this incident led to her early death.[1]
(from the Wikipedia article)
Also, this:
http://www.catholic.org/featured/headline.php?ID=712
and if you Google “Fatima and Islam,” you’ll get quite a bit of information.
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Also, from the inexhaustible ‘The Whole Truth About Fatima’ trilogy, by Frere Michel (Volume 1) I found the following:-
“Here let us point out, that if we can believe the words of an ancient ballad, Fatima owes its clearly Arabic name to an episode in the reconquest of Portugal which took place in this era. Fatima, the daughter of a powerful Moslem prince of Alcacer do Sal, was captured by a Crusader, Gonçalo Hermingues. When the Christian knight asked the king for her hand in marriage, she converted and was baptized under the name Oureana, from which the village of Ourem took its name. But the beautiful princess died young, and Don Gonçalo, in his distress, gave his life to God in the Cistercian abbey of Alcobaça. Not long after, the abbey founded a small priory in the neighbouring mountains; Brother Gonçalo was sent there and took with him the remains of his dear Fatima. The place took and kept her name . . . ”
I personally believe that when Russia is consecrated to the Immaculate Heart of Mary that many from all the various non-Catholic and non-Christian beliefs will convert – otherwise, how could the world expect a ‘period of peace’?
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Kevin1,
I also think that the Moslems will convert when Russia is consecrated. Right now it is amazing how many Christians are converting to Islam although not sure of the numbers, but it seems that there are quite a few.
If my memory is correct, I think the Fatima shrine rector was trying to turn the basilica into an inter-faith shrine. The Hindus have already had a service there but not sure of the Moslems.
I’ve not seen the video yet, but hope to look at it tomorrow.
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Well, this link http://community.babycenter.com/post/a23116129/questioning_my_religion?cpg=1&csi=2169721800&pd=-1
features a Catholic woman (a “catechist” of sorts) expressing her desire to explore other religions.First to respond, a Muslim. So you can’t fault them for zeal.
I’ve got my work cut out this weekend, caring for a relative who suffered a very bad fall on Thursday, so while I’ll pop into check that all is quiet on the western front, I really won’t have time to contribute much. Please pray for the poor patient.
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I have obtained a book titled – Moslems Their beliefs, practices and politics.
Gabriel Oussani and Hilaire Belloc. This book has been published by
Roger A. McCaffrey Publishling, Box1209, Ridgefield, CT 06877.The Publisher’s note is interesting and begins with September 11 2001, saw the resurgence of a time worn cliche. Our world is, most definitely, changed forever. What those who utter it may not realie is that “our world” is that which used to be called “Christian civilisation.”
The book is a collection of essays by Gabriel Oussani regarding the above title of the book. Published early in the 20th Century – in the original Catholic Encyclopedia and Hilaire Belloc’s essay of 1936 comes at the end of the book. I saw one copy of this book on sale in ebay, late last night on ebay. The bidding price was 7 US Dollars.
Belloc’s essay is titled “The great and enduring heresy of Mohammed”. It seems that the rise of Mohammedism began around 630 and exactly 100 years later western Europe began to be threatened by it as it made inroads from Spain. If we are aware of history, it was repelled with the greatest aid from Our Lady and the Rosary.
Nowadays Moslems live in “western civilisation” countries, we are under threat again. Kevin1 who found the video and having watched it can see how great this threat is.
I am about to begin reading this book, and am sure it will be extremely interesting, hopefully others will be able to get hold of this book too.
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After saying that there are a lot of Christian converts to Islam, I found a report about millions of Moslems converting to Christianity. This is a very interesting interview from 2007
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdVnILalpeoI’m sure that millions more will convert after the Russian Consecration.
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Barbara,
I remember being told by a Catholic bishop in Turkey that he estimated that somewhere in the region of five million Turks were secretly Christian.
But are you seriously suggesting that Our Lady is intervening to block personal conversions to her divine Son -ultimately the work of the Holy Trinity, for no ones comes to the faith unless by God’s grace- because Russia has (supposedly or otherwise) not been consecrated? From a theological point of view, if it wasn’t so sad it would be hilarious. Reads like a kind of gnosticism to me… But I’ve no doubt that Pope Torkay, that Master of the Sacra Pagina, will illuminate us.
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highlandpriest,
are you seriously suggesting that Our Lady was interfering in the work of the Holy Trinity when she said that that when Russia was converted there would be a period of peace? Does that mean she is somehow blocking world peace until the Consecration of Russia.
I’ve noticed that most, if not all of the priests on this blog are sceptical about Fatima and they have a more Protestant than Catholic attitude to Our Lady, as if she is somehow in competition with God.
I think the whole thing about Russia’s Consecration is, not that graces are being blocked by Our Lady, since she came with a message from God, but that God is withholding graces and that only the Consecration of this first publicly atheistic state will put that right.
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highlandpriest,
I have to agree with rebel that the priests on this blog are nearly always anti-Fatima or at least trying to play it down. It just amazes me.
I do think that it is all linked up, the conversion of the Jews, Muslims and everyone else, to the Consecration of Russia.
If you watch the video talk Feminism by Cornelia Ferreira fatimachallenge.com where she showed the way feminism was one of Russia’s error spread to destroy the family unit (and we all know the link between feminism and contraception) then it becomes clear that really the “period of peace” associated with the Consecration of Russia is really the restoration of Christ the King ruling over all the nations.
I think it is a big mistake to think that any “theology” worthy of the name, would put Our Lady in opposition to the Holy Trinity. A proper understanding of the Fatima revelations is to see Our Lady as God’s messenger. She said that right at the beginning: “I am the handmaid of the Lord.” She doesn’t take us away from her son, but straight to him.
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Ita,
I found this very interesting website with a very interesting piece on Islam which covers the contraception issue you raise, and shows the decline in Christianity as a result.
http://catholicknight.blogspot.com/2009/05/christianity-now-imploding-islam-to.html -
highlandpriest
Thank you for the new title: is there an annuity that comes with it?
Your reasoning appears to be inverted regarding the Consecration. The Consecration of Russia, once accomplished, will release/unleash/bestow upon humanity untold and uncountable quantities of grace. It is this grace which will effect conversions – as you said.
The Consecration lacking, however, means that humanity is still in a state of massive debt to Heaven for all the offenses we have committed, and for which no reparation has been made. It is that debt which prevents the floodgates of Heaven from opening, nothing else (in my opinion).
Then again, if you dismiss Fatima as irrelevant to the world stage, or having already been concluded, or the Consecration having already been done, then none of this will have anything to do with either faith or reason, and we should all, to use the phrase with which you introduced yourself on this blog, “get a life.”
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Let me put it another way, highlandpriest: for Barbara or anyone else to suggest that the Mediatrix of All Graces would block personal conversions because of the missing Consecration would be absurd. Barbara did not suggest that.
If anything is blocking personal conversions, particularly on a mass scale, it is the defilement and depravity of the human race, which sinks deeper into darkness by the hour, combined with the abdication of responsibility by several Popes and the great apostasy within the clergy – in favor of obedience to geopolitics.
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Highland Priest, perhaps the first chapter of St. Alphonsus Liguori’s Hail Holy Queen – An Explanation of the Salve Regina and the Role of the Blessed Mother in Our Salvation is worth recalling in response to your post and obvious reservations about Fatima.
Kings should, then, occupy themselves principally in works of mercy, but not so as to forget the just punishments that are to be inflicted on the guilty. It is, however, not thus with Mary, who, although a Queen, is not a queen of justice, intent on the punishment of the wicked, but a queen of mercy, intent only on commiserating and pardoning sinners. And this is the reason for which the Church requires that we should expressly call her the “Queen of Mercy”. The great Chancellor of Paris, John Gerson, in his commentary on the words of David, ‘these two things I have heard, that power belongeth to God, and mercy to Thee, O Lord’, says that the kingdom of God, consisting in justice and mercy, was divided by Our Lord: the kingdom of justice He reserved for Himself, and that of mercy He yielded to Mary, ordaining at the same time that all mercies that are dispensed to men should pass through the hands of Mary, and be disposed of by her at will. These are Gerson’s own words: ‘the kingdom of God consists in power and mercy; reserving power to Himself, He, in some way, yielded the empire of mercy to His Mother.’ This is confirmed by St. Thomas, in his preface to the Canonical Epistles, saying ‘that when the Blessed Virgin conceived the Eternal Word in her womb, and brought Him forth, she obtained half the kingdom of God; so that she is Queen of mercy, as Jesus Christ is King of justice.”
As it is moreover now of faith that Mary is Mediatrix of all graces, then the message of Fatima is easily understood in this light, and is ignored at our peril. For its appalling sins, mankind is calling down upon itself the most appalling punishments, totally in accordance with divine justice. Mary, at Fatima, and at other times and in other places, is seen struggling to convince men to make reparation for those sins, and has asked latterly for the Consecration of Russia, which, as we know all too well, is an extremely difficult thing for the Holy Father to accomplish, given the pressures and opposition from within and without the Church. My own thoughts are that mercy, in spite of Our Lady’s power to dispense mercy, cannot simply override the demands of divine justice, and men must themselves go some way toward making reparation. She is insistently showing us the way.
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Thank you for that link, Ita. I read somewhere a short time ago about the the detailed demographic report on which Catholic Knight bases his conclusion, and later heard Fr. Benedict Groeschel saying that he has written Europe off, as it will be a totally Islamic continent in the very near future. As I remember from the demographic report, this process is indeed now irreversible. Living near to towns in the North-West of England where the process is already far advanced, during the last 30 years I have seen some of the big local shopping-malls change from places where Muslims were occasionally seen, to places that I avoid, because in them I feel uncomfortable and even threatened by the overwhelming Muslim presence.
Starting first with entire streets of late-Victorian housing, in the neighbouring old cotton town, spreading to entire districts, and then expanding into purpose-built, for Muslims only, council housing, with halal kitchens, five bedrooms and solar-panelled roofs, the march of non-integrated Islamic occupation goes on unhindered and positively encouraged.Apart from the end of Christianity in Europe, I can only assume, from reading parts of the Koran, that all evidence of Europe’s artistic and literary heritage will be ruthlessly destroyed. Perhaps we should send the contents of our great libraries and art-galleries and to the USofA before it’s too late! From the perspective of their very strong faith, even ‘peaceful Muslims’ could not allow the survival of what they believe gives grave offence to Allah. And, as for the fate of ‘the infidel’, warnings in plenty exist around the world.
I am convinced, given the evidence that almost all refuse to see, that only the Consecration of Russia can avert the humanly inevitable. To me the part of the third secret that has been revealed suggests the triumph of Islam in the near future. At demonstrations in this country they proclaim it boldly with their banners, but are, of course, never opposed or challenged – maybe, after all, because they are simply stating the truth.
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Naomi,
Your last two posts are so clear and so helpful. I notice that the priests on this blog are not just sceptical about Fatima but when they read clear evidence that they are in the wrong, they don’t post to acknowledge that maybe, just maybe, they did get it wrong.
I very much agree with your post about the non-integrated Moslems/Muslims (why are there different spellings?)
It is very intimidating to see them in large numbers, as I did the other day watching them gather outside their mosque.
The point is, though, that it is our own fault for not seeing it coming. It would very much be sad if our art, literature etc. were to be destroyed, but if they think it offends “Allah” that is what they’ll do. It’s very bad that the Church is cosying up to these false religions instead of condemning their errors, as in the past. It gives us food for thought to think that in those days, when the popes condemned these false religions, our own churches were chock full. There’s a message in there somewhere.
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Any news, editor, about your relative who fell? I’m praying for him/her.
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AnneDroid,
Thank you for your kind enquiry – yes, thankfully the patient has made a good recovery and is almost back to normal.
However, keep praying for Betty (Miss McMoneypenny) who is still praying for a miracle. She just wants to be able to walk and talk again.
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Can we all direct our prayers for Betty to a special Beatus/a asking for his/her intercession for a miracle? Over to you for a suggestion.
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Naomi,
I’ve said in the past few editions of the newsletter that we are praying especially to Pope Pius XII for a miracle, since his cause has been introduced. As well as praying to Our Lady of Lourdes, of course. Just as well school is out, or you’d be getting an hour’s detention for not paying attention!
I received this link today of an interview with a priest in Russia who wanted to work in Russia because of Our Lady of Fatima/Consecration request. I haven’t had time to watch it myself, yet, so not sure of its content but the friend who emailed it said it was very interesting.
http://en.gloria.tv/?media=37821 -
Editor and Naomi
Isn’t Betty supposed to be going to Lourdes next month?
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Torkay,
You winding me up? Do you people – and I do mean “you people” – actually READ the newsletter?
Oh, I get it. You’re angling for an hour’s detention with Naomi. What a pair!
Right, here’s what the newsletter has been telling you for too many editions now to list….
Betty is going to Lourdes in July. We are all praying for a miracle when she is there, plus praying to Pope Pius XII because his cause for canonisation has been introduced (and thus he has a vested interest in obtaining a miracle for her…)
Now, if anybody else comes on asking about Lourdes, cures, Betty, Miss McMoneypenny, pilgrimage etc. they’re in the doghouse.
Cue, Petrus…
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Breaking news! (or, at least, recently broken news!)
I’ve just received a very interesting email from one of the speakers at the Fatima Challenge Conference (we now have an email group for those of us who attended the Fatima Challenge Conference)
Here it is…
Please advice that on an Italian main stream TV, ReteQuattro, there is right now a broadcasting on. It’s about the undisclosed part of the Third Secret. There is also an interview with Mr. Antonio Socci.
It’s now almost main stream, at least in Italy, that the Third Secret is not about the past but about the future.
It is in Italian but father Gruner understands and speaks very well Italian, so it shouldn’t be a problem. It is also discussed that there are – possibly it is said – two different texts.
There is also a short interview with Father Gruner.God Bless
In Christo Rege per Mariam Reginam
Maurizio d’Orlando
See this link http://www.tv.mediaset.it/rete4/top_secret/news_6125.shtml -
Ouch!
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I should think so, Naomi. “Ouch” indeed!
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Is there any chance of getting an English transcript of that TV programme?
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Here’s a little something for today’s great Feast:
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Highland Priest & Caledonianpriest
PUBLIC AND PRIVATE REVERLATION.
Is God’s Word Inviolate?
Re: Divine Mercy. Sister Faustina.
Blasphemy In God’s HouseRequest for the two Shepherd’s who have the authority to teach God’s Word who visit this site. To give me clarity and understanding concerning this matter. See Question and Answers link 4. June 3rd
I have waited for three weeks but have had no response to my request by the two priests on this site ( thread Our Lady of Akita) and over two hundred that I have E-mailed over several months.
CONCLSION.
What I am saying doe’s not warrant a reply. But I say that I am uneducated and need help and that in Christian Charity it should be given.
Silence generally denotes agreement and I can only conclude that under orders of obedience no one will respond to my accusation of spiritual corruption in high places.
I have been stonewalled at every turn.
Stonewalling appears to be the practice in all areas of difficulty ( SIN ) within the church
And this causes the Church to be held in contempt by non believers and believersJesus say’s you are the salt of the earth and that you will be sanctified in truth.
Living water flows from a truthful heart but the heart of God’s church on earth appears to be rudderless and steering us towards dry land.
kevin
In Christ. -
kevin,
I answered you even if the priests haven’t done so. Why not console yourself with the thought that if the Church allowed women to be ordained, I’d be sure to be – at least – a bishop. Why not?
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Editor
If you become a bishop, can I become a rook?
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Tomas de Torkay,
Do you mean a “crook”?
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Barbara
I think you stole Editor’s line…
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Thomas de Torkay
No
I believe that you took the hook.
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Editor
Thank you for your reply but you only answered the first part of my question (Questions and answers Link4). Your response. Yes God’s Word is inviolate as defined by the Catholic Church.
When I started this quest to bring into focus the true message to Sr Faustina re; Divine Mercy on the first site I visited ( I had never been on a site before) as the discussion progress my own understanding grew I had not used the word Inviolate before at this point in the debating it became heated the visits to my article started to increase rapidly I was taken off the site and the article removed. I then went to your site my questions appeared to be played down or ignored ( I realized that your site is quite small in numbers compared to some sites and this may account for that fact). I went to another site I was given a hard time tempers became frayed my article closed. And then to another and then another on one of the largest sites I quote from Gabriel (which encapsulates the argument against the one that I am making ).Gabriel
Your QuoteI am reminded of St.Fancis’s misinterpretation of the message to rebuild the church
Visionaries may often misinterpret the message they receive if it is impractical such as St Faustina poor painting skills they must revaluate that the message really intends.
I think that this is what St.Faustina did and I think that she was the best Judge of how to reinterpret it.My reply
Visionaries cannot misinterpret a message that they receive from God (If they do it is not from God) but the full revelation of the message with the guidance of The Holy Spirit can take time to reach full fruition.
St Francis did not misinterpret the message from God “Francis, Francis, go and repair my church”.My house which you can see is falling into ruin.
Gods Word is Inviolate.
St Francis took and obeyed God’s Word on an earthly plane.(it was not misinterpreted)
In the fullness of time God’s Holy Spirit revealed to St Francis and God’ Holy Church the full implication of this command from God on the spiritual plane.Sr.Faustina obeyed the command given by God but her superiors did not their actions confirm this.
Quote
At the first apparition Our Lord instructed Sister Faustina“ Paint a picture according to the vision you see” and with the inscription: “ Jesus I Trust in Thee”
I desire that this picture be venerated first in your chapel and then throughout the world.No one else can paint this picture no one can see what she saw.
At first she tried to sketch it herself she was no artist and failed. After many trials, someone was found who could and did paint it.
She came from a very poor family and had only three years of very basic education hers were the humblest task in the convent tending the door cooking cleaning gardening.
It is fair to assert that had her superiors accepted her attempt as they should have done
( they would have known that God’s Word is Inviolate) she would have also
They could not accept her badly painted picture in humility and disobeyed God’s command given to Sr.Faustina and pursued they own interests and in doing so violated the Word of God.God’s message (command) to Sr. Faustina WAS NOT OPEN TO REVALUATE to do so would be to say that God did not know what he was doing in essence it would not be God’s Word. It would not be a revelation from God. St. Faustina would not be a saint.
The whole essence of this revelation has been corrupted by the act of her superiors
disobeying God’s command to Sr.Faustina.They made God in their own image and this profane image is now in God’s House.
I am confident God’s Holy Spirit will in the fullness of time bring about full fruition of God’s Will to God’s Holy church on earth in regards to this revelation.
God’s Word is Inviolate the church cannot and must not trifle with His Word
My article at this point was shut down and removed from the site.
The next site jclovers was closed down I believe because of ill health to the owner.
kevin
In Christ -
kevin,
I’ve never read the life of Sr Faustina so I can only guess at what you mean. You seem to be saying that Jesus revealed to Sister how he wanted a particular image of himself to be painted but that Sister’s superiors produced a different painting? Is that what you mean?
I’m guessing that people just don’t understand what you are asking, because I don’t and that is probably why you are not getting the answer you want. Can you answer YES or NO to my first paragraph, so I can h ave some idea if I am following you correctly.
Comments are now closed.
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