bishop tartaglia

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Below is an extract from an  article, ironically entitled Call for a return to Faith and spiritual obedience published in today’s Scottish Catholic Observer, penned by the eminently disobedient, Bishop Philip Tartaglia.  The SCO has yet to move into the 21st century; they do not publish all articles online (they struggle with sales in parishes, obviously) and so only the introduction to Bishop Tartaglia’s article is published on the SCO website, with an instruction to buy the hard copy if you want to read the rest.  Don’t bother.  Here’s (most of) the rest…

Bishop Tartaglia  in his own – quite shocking – words…

“… Media coverage of the Pope’s visit has chosen to highlight liturgical issues, as if to suggest that preparation for the Pope’s visit will be marred by damaging splits in the Catholic community over the liturgy… The truth is that priests are not breaking down bishops’ doors to ask for training to celebrate Mass in the extraordinary form nor are many of them freely choosing to celebrate Mass in that form, as they might do, if they wished.  Chatting to one of my younger priests about this matter, he said to me that he had no inclination to say Mass in the old form, even if he respected it for what it had been to many generations of Catholics.  He said that he got his Faith and vocation to the priesthood from his experience of the Mass as it is, and he was happy with that. (Ed: now there’s a very sensible priest.  He knows the mind of his bishop!  If I thought for a second that priests were career-minded, I’d say “there goes a potentially very successful career priest!” The fact is that the bishop is supposed to be a leader:  wherever he leads, the clergy will follow. Bishop Tartaglia has made his views known on the old rite Mass.  Goodness, given how open he has been with lay correspondents, revealing his dislike, to put it mildly, of the TLM, one can only imagine what he says to his priests on the topic…)

It also has to be said that there is little spontaneous demand from Catholics for Mass in the extraordinary form. Such provision as there is, some of it long-standing, centrally located and prime-timed on a Sunday morning, is vastly under-used. Why would bishops put pressure on priests to celebrate a form of Mass they do not want to celebrate and for tiny numbers of the faithful too, when most parishes only have one priest who is fully occupied on Sundays and holy days providing Mass in the ordinary form?  It just does not seem to make pastoral sense. (Ed: well the bishops thought nothing of making priests say a Mass that nobody had asked for, a Mass, moreover, concocted by a Freemason priest with the help of 6 Protestant Ministers.  Nobody asked for that, if I recall.  I remember clearly being one of those faithful who was open mouthed when the fact that we were getting a “new Mass” was announced.  I also remember being open mouthed when priests who felt they could not abandon the old rite were persecuted and punished for their trouble.  So, don’t gimme, “can’t force my priests to say the old Mass”. You forced plenty to say the new).

In my experience as a bishop, the case for Mass in the extraordinary form in Scotland is seriously weakened by militant ultra-traditional groupings (Ed: plural? really? Who are they?) who propagate the false doctrine that the Mass in the ordinary form and Mass in the extraordinary form are not one and the same Holy Sacrifice of the Mass and that Mass in the extraordinary form is superior to the ordinary form, which should be suppressed.  They explicitly deny the teaching of the Second Vatican Council on ecumenism and on religious freedom. (Ed: these “teachings” are not binding on the faithful.  They are novelties condemned, consistently, by previous popes).They also frequently and egregiously disrespect the memory of Pope John XXIII, Pope Paul VI and Pope John Paul II, and have the nerve to express huge reservations about the person and ministry of Pope Benedict XVI. (Ed: only if and when we attack the Petrine Ministry, may you  criticise us. We are entitled to express, as robustly as we wish, our concerns about these Vatican II popes who have introduced errors into the Church. Thankfully, none of these errors have been pronounced binding on the faithful, so we remain loyal to the papacy and always will, for Christ will not abandon His Church – despite unfaithful popes and bishops.) What bishop would seriously want this kind of influence around his diocese?  What bishop would want one of his priests or one of his parish churches associated with such a group? (Ed: what bishop would not alert his people to unsavoury groups working within the Church?  Who are these “militant, ultra-traditional groups”?  I’d like to know to warn my friends in Paisley to have nothing to do with them. It would be, clearly, a charity to name these groups, not to say, an important episcopal duty to protect the faithful.)

These groups sometimes contend that the problems in the Church come from the liturgy and that all will be well if we go back to an earlier form of the liturgy.  This is an erroneous and somewhat simplistic analysis. (Ed: phew!  That lets us off the hook. We hold to no such simplistic analysis. We know that the restoration of the Mass is but one part of the solution to this terrible Church crisis – see our threads on Professor Groome, re-ordering of sanctuaries, priesthood etc. Phew! For a minute  I thought he was having a go at Catholic Truth…)

The problems in the Church today do not come from the liturgy; they come from a lack of Faith and a spirit of disobedience. (Ed: hear hear.  But that disobedience includes the liturgy. Bishop Tartaglia  knows perfectly well that there is extensive and illicit use of Extraordinary Ministers of Holy Communion at novus ordo Masses. That is blatant disobedience, never mind the hostile attitude towards the TLM).

And these are the result of hostile philosophical trends which originated in the 18th and 19th centuries, and which came to fruition in the 20th century. (Ed: Extraordinary Ministers of Holy Communion? Really?)

These trends developed while we were celebrating Mass in an older form. (Ed: Extraordinary Ministers of Holy Communion? Really?) Mass in the older form did not cause these trends nor prevent them developing.  Similarly, Mass in the newer form did not cause the problems in today’s Church, even if the liturgy has sometimes focused these problems. (Ed: what does that mean?) Mass in whatever form nourishes the Faith of those who participate (Ed: I disagree. Didn’t nourish my faith at all, Quite the reverse) but may not prevent evil things from undermining the Church.  Faith and holiness are the antidotes to the Church’s problems, not a wholesale return to an earlier form of the Mass. (Ed: the two things, “faith and holiness” are integral to the old rite Mass).

Of course, none of that is to contradict or gainsay the rightness or the wisdom of the Pope’s Motu Proprio Summorum Pontificum in which the Holy Father gives a very generous permission for the celebration of Mass in the extraordinary form. And where priests wish to celebrate Mass in that form, they may freely do so both privately and publicly. But, as I read the Pope’s words, permission stops short of promotion. (Ed: then please read it again, Bishop and put it together with the interview from Monsignor Guido Pozzo that I sent you in my letter dated 30 November, 2009, where it is made clear that the Pope wants the old rite Mass in every parish).

The Pope’s document places no obligation on bishops to promote Mass in the extraordinary form. Mass in the ordinary form must remain the norm for our liturgies. (Ed: we’ll see…) When he issued his Motu Proprio in July 2007, the Holy Father promised a review after three years. The time for that review must be soon. If it takes place, one of the things I would hope to see clarified is precisely this point about permission, provision and promotion.

In the meantime, I, as a bishop, would certainly not attempt to dissuade one of my priests who on his own initiative chose to introduce that form of the Mass into public worship of his parish. (Ed: that, frankly, I do not believe. Having read Bishop Tartaglia’s letters to two separate, unconnected individuals, telling them, in words of one syllable, what he thinks of the old rite Mass and their request for it in the diocese, I simply do not believe him. Let any Paisley priest come forward and prove me wrong. Give me concrete details of arrangements to learn the TLM and a date  for your first TLM – I’ll make a point of attending it myself.  I repeat, I do not believe, for a second, that Bishop Tartaglia would not seek to dissuade any priest of his, who wished to offer the TLM on a regular basis, in his parish). But so far none has, and I can see why; they don’t sense any personal spiritual need to do it and they do not recognise any compelling pastoral  need to do so.  But if that should change, I will be the first to take due cognizance of that fact.

This is not to say that there are no problems with liturgical practice in Scotland, a point well made by some commentators…At the same time, I distance myself from the allegation reported in the media coverage that Mass is commonly celebrated by Scottish priests in a casual or sloppy way.  Priests do not routinely deny the Church’s Faith in their homilies. Priests do not routinely set up unworthy liturgies. My experience of priests in my own diocese and elsewhere is that they try to offer worship which is celebrated according to liturgical norms, which is devout, which communicates the mysteries of the Catholic Faith, which is accessible and participative, and which includes the best music they have in their parish resources. In my experience, priests want to bring  Christ to their people in the liturgy and in their pastoral activity.The liturgy remains a work-in-progress (emphasis added) but, in the main, priests celebrate it well. (Ed: oh well, then, that’s OK – who cares if God is worshipped shabbily as long as “in the main” he is not thus insulted…) That’s why the people are not  generally clamouring for something else. (Ed: they’re not clamouring for something else because they don’t know what else is available – since the bishops have made sure that Summorum Pontificum has been kept well away from parish bulletins, announcements, church websites etc.)

So, when the Pope comes, everyone can be certain that any liturgy that the Holy Father celebrates in Scotland will include the best music, the best ceremonial, and the best liturgical practice that we can manage. But above all, the Pope’s Mass will make the living Christ present o his people.

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I was alerted to Damien Thompson’s blog on the Church in Scotland and, neither he nor James MacMillan whom he is quoting,  appear to have heard of Catholic Truth.  Apart from the gaffe of the century – naming Cardinal O’Brien, Archbishop Conti and Bishop Tartaglia as (possibly) “impeccably orthodox” when, for the past ten years, we have demonstrated that they are very far from being orthodox, impeccably or otherwise - there is also the ’revelation’ (not)  that Scots priests are afraid to speak out about the failure of the bishops to encourage the implementation of  Summorum Pontificum.  In fact, Scots priests are afraid to speak out, period.

We’ve covered all these issues ad nauseum and while we believe that the bishops should be providing training in Latin and in the rubric of the traditional Mass, that does not excuse the clergy at large from taking the initiative.  That’s why the Pope by-passed the bishops via Summorum Pontificum, for goodness sake.  So, no more excuses, whether from priests themselves or via James MacMillan. 

 Click here to read it all for yourself and then click on ’comments’ to tell us why on earth the clergy are such weak characters. Oh and you might want to ask yourself why James MacMillan and  Damien Thompson, internet-experienced as they are, don’t seem to know about Catholic Truth and our exposition of the true state of the Church in Scotland for the past ten years - with a sackful of evidence to demonstrate the schismatic mentality of our bishops.  There are even a couple of quotes permanently on our website from Cardinal O’Brien and Archbishop Conti – see Edinburgh/Glasgow sections of our site, respectively.  Yet Damien Thompson does not correct the false belief that they (and the TLM-hating Bishop Tartaglia) are “impeccably orthodox”.  Curious, don’t you think?  Note:  this thread is not really about the Mass or the bishops or the clergy;  it is about the unwillingness of certain laity, especially those with influence, those who command columns in newspapers, for example, to admit the truth about the Scottish bishops:  that they have lost the Catholic faith,  that they display a schismatic mentality.   THAT is the real topic here.

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By  popular demand, this thread has been opened to discuss the May edition, now online.  Note that this is a large file and takes a wee while to download, so be patient.  This being the holiday weekend, the hard copies are likely to be later than usual in arriving, but those who have read it online are keen to discuss some issues arising out of the current edition.  http://www.catholictruthscotland.com/MayNewsletter09.pdf

Disappointment is already filtering through about our report on Bishop Tartaglia whom many people - priests and laity – hoped would become the next Archbishop of Glasgow.  Maybe he will.  But one thing is now clear from our report, and it is this:  it will be “no change” for traditional Catholics.   Maybe he’ll be nicer to his priests, don’t know and don’t care.   Anyway, click on the link below to read the May edition and then tell us what you think. 

And don’t forget to take note of the disobedient, uncaring and very rude Bishop of Middlesbrough’s behaviour towards 70 year old James Palmer.  That, and much more, is found within the pages of the May 09 edition.   

Click on ‘comments’ now to share you thoughts.

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‘Sally on Sunday’ is Radio Scotland’s answer to BBC Radio 4’s popular ‘Desert Island Discs’, where another Scots presenter – Kirsty Young - interviews famous personalities and plays their favourite music. 

Every Sunday, Sally Magnusson slips out of her newsreader’s role to play hostess with the  mostest on Radio Scotland.  Her TV and radio appearances and hearances, respectively, communicate a sweet, very personable, lady about town. 

More times than you’ve had haggis & neeps,  Sally Magnusson has interviewed Ronnie Convery (you know, the Communications Director for the Archdiocese of Glasgow) – Mr Convery ManyPeople – but today, Sunday 9th November,  she  moved up a notch in the world of religious broadcasting and found herself a real live priest to interview. 

‘Father’ David Cotter of St Aidan’s, Johnstone – Diocese of Paisley - is the latest priest to hit the Scottish airwaves – albeit, in his case, with an American accent.  Lately, I’ve taken to putting inverted commas round the title ‘Father’ because, try as I do, I just cannot take these dissenters seriously as Catholic priests. 

So, what will you hear when you click on the link  below, to the ’Sally on Sunday’ broadcast?  You’ll hear two things to shock.  Firstly, a priest promoting president-elect Obama and belittling the few American bishops who did their level best to stop Catholics voting for that barbarian, dismissing his policy on same-sex unions and referring more than once to Obama’s position on “so-called life issues”. 

He cunningly weighed Obama’s pro-abortion-to-the-point-of-infanticide voting record – that is, the  murder of the most vulnerable and completely innocent beings in the entire universe – with his anti-Iraq war policy and threw in the Church’s support for capital punishment to further muddy  the waters.  I’m truly surprised we’ve not heard of this disgraceful priest before.  It’s taken the Protestant Sally Magnusson to bring him to our attention.  He’s now got our attention, big-time.  Oh and when I refer to Sally’s Protestantism,  I should add that her usual, carefully crafted, ecumenical veneer crumbled when she grasped the opportunity given to her by this bad priest to mock Our Lady. 

Yes, you guessed:  that’s the second shocking thing that you’ll hear when you click on the link to ‘Sally on Sunday’.   ’Father’ Cotter and Sally Magnusson are at one in mocking our beautiful prayer to Our Lady – the Ave Maria, a prayer straight out of Sacred Scripture, sung, sensationally, by the latest showbiz discovery, the singing group, The Priests.  Now, I intensely dislike this growing practice of priests singing semi-professionally, whatever the excuse.  The world of the theatre and show business is diametrically opposed to everything that should direct and occupy a priest.  I have to admit, though, that their rendering of Ave Maria was easily one of the most beautiful I have ever heard.   See if you agree.

Whether you agree with me on that or not, though, I’d be amazed if you  are not profoundly shocked at the conversation which immediately followed it.  Sally Magnusson laughs and tells ‘Father’ Cotter that he’s not looking quite as transported as might be expected, adding: “You become immune to it after a while”.

This unconscionable priest joins in the laughter and agrees that “you do hear it with a certain frequency…”

The giggly pair then enjoy a joke about contacting his agent to see what he can work out in terms of a possible career move for ‘Father’ Cotter … Well, here’s a message from Catholic Truth, straight from the heart:  please do.  Soon.  That you’re no use as a Catholic priest is eminently clear from your interview on Sally on Sunday.  

Your mocking laughter on hearing ANY rendition of the Hail Mary, can only come straight from Hell.  The inspiration to mock and roll your eyes, to quote Sally, after hearing what anyone with a soul would consider to be an eminently beautiful performance of Ave Maria, (by fellow priests, no less) emanates from precisely the same place.  For a Catholic priest to mock the beautiful Ave Maria is nothing short of despicable.  Diabolical and despicable.  

I’ll pass over in near silence what I think about Sally’s pronouncedly UN-ecumenical insult to traditional Catholic sensibilities.  There’s some little excuse for her – she’s a Protestant and Protestants have never pretended to have any love for Our Lady.   Sadly.   She obviously does have a love for our national poet, Robert  Burns, though, for she played one of his poems and believe me, there was no mocking of the Rabbie Burns piece which was as tuneless as the Ave Maria had been heavenly.  Mind you, I’m the wrong person to ask – I can’t stand (most of) Burns’ alleged poetry. 

Now, I happen to know that Bishop Tartaglia is as computer literate as Bill Gates.  He’ll read this.  If he didn’t know before that he’s got a problem in St Aidan’s in Johnstone, he knows now.  In his shoes I’d be sending for the anything-but-Reverend Cotter and reminding him that we still have planes going to the States and we can still afford a one-way ticket for him, credit crunch or no credit crunch. Contact Miss McMoneypenny if you need financial assistance, Bishop Tartaglia, because this is one cause we’re happy to support.

Remember – Fr John Fitzsimmon, the last Paisley priest-broadcaster to host his own show on Radio Scotland, caused much scandal and ignored all our approaches to mend his ways.   He died on 17th May, the very day of our Conference.  If only he’d taken the hint.    Rev. David Cotter looks set to become Fizsimmons, mark two.

What do YOU think Bishop Tartaglia should do about this latest priest  from his patch to hit the airwaves?   He must do something before ‘Father’ Cotter, like ‘Father’ Fitzsimmons before him, progresses to his own show, misleading listeners about the nature and purpose of the Church and – as he did in conversation with Sally Magnusson – distorting Catholic Teaching.   Just listen to the rubbish he talks about conscience for an example of the way he twisted doctrine on ‘Sally on Sunday’.  

Click on the link to ‘Sally on Sunday’ and then tell us, asap, what you think Bishop Tartaglia should do.  http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/console/b00ff7nj  (listen again – 9th November, online for six days)

Update – 18/11/08

Today, I was proved wrong.  Contrary to my comment in yesterday’s update, Bishop Tartaglia had not stopped answering my emails.  And we must, at least, give him credit for this good grace – unlike some of his brother bishops, Bishop Tartaglia does reply to our communications.   In his email today, he writes:

“I know you will write what you want to write about Father David Cotter’s radio interview. I have attached a few thoughts of mine on the matter. I rather hoped you would moderate your attack on him in the light of these observations.”

Now, listen.   There ain’t been no “attack” on Father Cotter, here at Catholic Truth.  There is no shortage of gloves-off commentary on his radio performance, that’s true, but we provided a link to the show so that readers could hear him for themselves.  I’ve not had a single email nor are there any comments on the two threads about Fr Cotter arguing a different interpretation from mine, of his words and actions.

I know that calling him “Cowboy Cotter”, not to mention poor Sally Magnusson “Syruppy Sally” is not very nice.  (Edited out later, because I felt bad about that) But it is about the only perk there is in this job, that I get to use a wee bit of poetic licence now and again. There’s no money in it and the hours are terrible.   Truth is, I like Sally Magnusson.  She IS nice (and not really “syrupy” – sweet, not syrupy) And I’ll say this for her:  in all the years I’ve heard her on radio and TV, when she has frequently mentioned her Protestant faith, I’ve not once heard her mock any aspect of it.  Not once.  She is a loyal Protestant  – ‘Father’ Cotter take note.  So, I’ve been a bit naughty with the poetic licence, I’ll give you that, but we have to have a laugh, don’t we?

In any event, rather than go over the whole story again, I believe that – in order that justice be served -  the fair thing for me to do now is to publish Bishop Tartaglia’s commentary and allow readers to re-assess the whole situation in the light of his remarks.   If you think my interpretation has been flawed, please say so.  You’d be wrong, but my up-market team of regular bloggers will soon demonstrate that, so see if I care. Be upstanding now, please, for Bishop Tartaglia…

 Bishop Tartaglia’s comments on Fr Cotter’s radio interview

 Dear (Editor)

With regards to your various emails on the subject of Father David Cotter’s radio interview last Sunday morning on Sally Magnusson’s programme, “Sally on Sunday”, I hope you will bear in the mind the following in whatever you choose to write in Catholic Truth:

 1)      Father Cotter’s interview was rather brief and could not be said to be an in-depth analysis of the matters which were touched upon rather superficially. It is most unwise and unfair to demonise Father Cotter on the basis of that radio programme.

 

2)      Father Cotter said nothing at all about Our Lady or about the Hail Mary. He merely suggested that the recording of Schubert’s Ave Maria which was played to him was not to his taste.

 

3)      Father Cotter revealed that he voted for Barak Obama in the presidential election. He tried to explain that a vote for Obama was not necessarily a vote for his policies in favour of abortion and gay rights. It is possible to discuss further what Father Cotter said, but it is premature and therefore unjust to infer the worst from what he said or did not say.

 

4)      It is reported that a goodly minority of American bishops advised Catholics in their diocese that abortion is not just one subject among others, but is a defining subject for the Catholic conscience. This is advice with which I totally concur. But, unless I am mistaken, no Catholic bishop said that American Catholics must not vote for Obama. They recognised that the choice had to come from within, not from positive law. And the United States Bishops’ Conference, which is very worried about Obama’s pro-abortion policies, did not have a declared position on which candidate Catholics should vote for.

 

 5)      I am unwilling to bow to pressure to reveal what transpired between me and   Father Cotter about his radio interview.   Bishop Philip Tartaglia

 Ed:  I’ve emailed to thank Bishop Tartaglia for this response and to remind him that I did not expect him to spell out what transpired between him and Father Cotter; I merely asked for his reassurance that he would address the issues with Fr Cotter and it would appear that he has, indeed, done so – I’m sensing that the above comments are Fr Cotter’s self-defence.  I could be wrong. Tell us what you think.        

 

Update – 17/11/08

 

After posting this thread, I had an exchange of emails with Bishop Tartaglia who disagrees with my assessment of Father Cotter. Clearly, however, the Bishop knows perfectly well that openly supporting a politician as viciously devoted to the culture of death as Barack Obama is not quite the thing for any priest to do, and I suspect that he also realises that a priest who can mock the Hail Mary is not the kind of priest to whom you want to be seen giving your unqualified support, so he’s allowed himself this minimal qualification about Fr Cotter’s radio interview: 

 

There are many points for debate and discussion which arise from what Father Cotter said.  But it seems premature and hasty to conclude that Father Cotter has dissented ‘tout court’ from Catholic teaching.  (Bishop Tartaglia, email, 13/11/08)

 

“Premature and hasty?”  I don’t think so.  Let’s take what Fr Cotter said about conscience.   To clarify Fr Cotter’s remarks, the Bishop must answer the following question…

 

May Catholics vote for a political candidate who not only supports abortion legislation but wants to extend it up to birth?  (Remember, John McCain, alternative candidate, is pro-life).

 

Bishop Tartaglia has stopped answering my emails, so there’s no point in me writing to ask him if Father Cotter has correctly described the teaching of the Church on conscience (even tongue in cheek). 

 But, why don’t you ask him that key question?  Email bishopphilip@paisleydiocese.org.uk

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